Recommended Television Programmes

[EnemyoftheStoat]

This doesn't help matters in my view . when it comes to those responsible being properly held to account. Lack of integrity and competence at the top doesn't make for good management.
I did watch although I found it hard going. The Guardian reviewer described it well

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2024/jan/01/mr-bates-vs-the-post-office-review-toby-jones-is-perfect-in-a-devastating-tale-of-a-national-scandal

I think that knowing, even when it becomes apparent that the fault is not with the people but with the organisation, how long it will be before any sort of official recognition and action will even start adds to the tension. This is after all about real people(even if some liberties are taken in the dramatisation), it's not a TV drama series where nasty things aren't real.

Having been familiarising myself with the scandal via the BBC4/Soundz pieces and the official website - expert witness statements etc - and blogs, I was half expecting this programme to be a bit "fluffy", but I found that no punches were pulled. Even knowing that it's only ever got to the stage of a public inquiry - "lessons will be learnt" and such tosh - and an actual police investigation (let alone prosecution of the real guilty parties) is unlikely, I still found parts 1 and 2 gripping. In fact I had to turn off part 2, so dark had it got, although I will finish it and watch the rest soon.

[LMcD]

Having been familiarising myself with the scandal via the BBC4/Soundz pieces and the official website - expert witness statements etc - and blogs, I was half expecting this programme to be a bit "fluffy", but I found that no punches were pulled. Even knowing that it's only ever got to the stage of a public inquiry - "lessons will be learnt" and such tosh - and an actual police investigation (let alone prosecution of the real guilty parties) is unlikely, I still found parts 1 and 2 gripping. In fact I had to turn off part 2, so dark had it got, although I will finish it and watch the rest soon.

I'm resisting the urge to watch the remainder straightaway on ITV X.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'm resisting the urge to watch the remainder straightaway on ITV X.

I find knowing the facts and what lies behind them quite enough for me - it's sad if the public (not of this forum, I am sure) need goading into a sense of injustice by having the plights dramatised depressing in the extreme.

[oddoneout]

I find knowing the facts and what lies behind them quite enough for me - it's sad if the public (not of this forum, I am sure) need goading into a sense of injustice by having the plights dramatised depressing in the extreme.

I understand your point but would say that the series is more documentary than dramatisation in some respects. Bearing in mind how long this has been going on and the extent to which it was, in effect, covered up, I think having it compressed and presented in this form will ensure it reaches a wider audience than would otherwise be the case. I don't think it's goading as, so far at least, it has all been low key, with the facts being left to speak for themselves(and heaven knows they have a lot to say!) instead of actors' exaggerated signposting.
There is also the aspect that visual presentation can be more effective than aural or written.

[burning dog]

Adam Crozier


Crozier was CEO of Royal Mail at a crucial period in the Post Office scandal when the Post Office was still part of Royal Mail, in which hundreds of sub-postmasters were falsely accused of, and prosecuted for, theft or false accounting. Prosecutions were conducted based on revenue shortfalls identified by the Post Office's Horizon computer system. These were erroneous and the result of bugs and errors in the system. Post Office officials knew about the bugs as early as 2002, but chose to continue with the prosecutions regardless

Crozier left the Royal Mail in 2010 to become the chief executive of media group ITV plc.^[17][18]

Crozier does not feature in the current ITV drama! I wonder why?

[LMcD]

Crozier does not feature in the current ITV drama! I wonder why?

Why indeed? However, I still think - or hope - that despite his omission this TV drama will nevertheless increase overall public awareness of this dreadful scandal and the equally scandalous delays in righting so many wrongs. It's also possible, perhaps, that the inclusion of Mr Crozier might have had consequences that could have impacted negatively on the production.

[burning dog]

It's also possible, perhaps, that the inclusion of Mr Crozier might have had consequences that could have impacted negatively on the production.

Seems likely

[oddoneout]

I see there is a documentary about the PO scandal to follow the last episode of the drama version, 10-45pm on ITV
Not sure I'll have the stamina to watch both(or be able to stay awake) but could be interesting to see how a factual approach differs from the drama one.
Nick Hilton seemed to want more drama and thinks viewers won't stick with the 4 episodes, but would be more likely to view the documentary(which apparently will use bits from the drama - a gimmick which I hate) as it's a single one hour challenge to concentration. I'm not so sure about that.

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/reviews/mr-bates-vs-the-post-office-itv-b2467937.html

(I managed to read the greyed out version; rejecting cookies as is my habit, brings up the clearer version but also all the gross ads.)

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Nick Hilton seemed to want more drama and thinks viewers won't stick with the 4 episodes, but would be more likely to view the documentary(which apparently will use bits from the drama - a gimmick which I hate) as it's a single one hour challenge to concentration. I'm not so sure about that.

Me neither. I suspect the general appetite for drama is greater than for documentaries, notwithstanding Mr Hilton's misgivings about "clanging dialogue" and "the focus on the story rather than the telling".

[LMcD]

Me neither. I suspect the general appetite for drama is greater than for documentaries, notwithstanding Mr Hilton's misgivings about "clanging dialogue" and "the focus on the story rather than the telling".

I think Mr Hilton is wrong, not least because the documentary is tucked away at 10.30 p.m. while the drama is being shown at 9.00 p.m.
Caught up this lunchtime with the 1st episode of 'Truelove' on Channel 4, which, at least for me, passed the 'Do I want to see the next episode' test.

[oddoneout]

Well I have just watched the documentary version of Mr Bates v the Post Office. What a tiresome waste of time would be my considered verdict. I admit that could be coloured somewhat by having seen the dramatised version, as there was nothing in the doc version that wasn't in the dramatised one, and seeing the real life people simply showed how very very good the casting for the drama was.
The documentary was done to the now seemingly standard method - silly noise effects and camera work, bursts of "music", and cuts to dramatised bits presented as factual. I imagine the Independent's TV critic Nick Hilton will have found it satisfactory - more drama and faster paced - but I think it failed on two counts. It wasn't a very good presentation of the salient facts and timeline and neither did it convey the sense of helplessness and mounting horror felt by the victims as their lives fell apart.

[smittims]

As a fan of early cinema documentary (Humphrey Jennings, etc.) I have noticed TV documentary getting into a rut over the years. The same worn-out ideas are used repeatedly, whatever the subject. The genre needs a revival.

[LMcD]

Well I have just watched the documentary version of Mr Bates v the Post Office. What a tiresome waste of time would be my considered verdict. I admit that could be coloured somewhat by having seen the dramatised version, as there was nothing in the doc version that wasn't in the dramatised one, and seeing the real life people simply showed how very very good the casting for the drama was.
The documentary was done to the now seemingly standard method - silly noise effects and camera work, bursts of "music", and cuts to dramatised bits presented as factual. I imagine the Independent's TV critic Nick Hilton will have found it satisfactory - more drama and faster paced - but I think it failed on two counts. It wasn't a very good presentation of the salient facts and timeline and neither did it convey the sense of helplessness and mounting horror felt by the victims as their lives fell apart.

Oh dear - I've recorded it, so I might well have a peek with my expectations well and truly screwed down. I think the drama was a valuable supplement to Nick Wallis's excellent programmes on Radio 4 and may well have brought the whole sorry saga to the attention of a wider audience.

[oddoneout]

Oh dear - I've recorded it, so I might well have a peek with my expectations well and truly screwed down. I think the drama was a valuable supplement to Nick Wallis's excellent programmes on Radio 4 and may well have brought the whole sorry saga to the attention of a wider audience.

Don't let my jaundiced view put you off - the things that annoyed me might not be such an issue for you, especially if you didn't watch the dramatisation. My expectations were too high! If it brings the matter to more people's attention then it will have served a valuable purpose.
My concern about the whole appalling mess is that Fujitsu continues to be a firmly favoured contractor for government IT projects(including an extension to the Horizon contract) , and also was involved in an expensive NHS IT contract wrangle. Will the Post Office affair ensure that there is sufficient scrutiny of such contracts and their delivery? The phrase "lessons will be learned" is often bandied about but how often is it ever accompanied by meaningful action?

[LMcD]

Don't let my jaundiced view put you off - the things that annoyed me might not be such an issue for you, especially if you didn't watch the dramatisation. My expectations were too high! If it brings the matter to more people's attention then it will have served a valuable purpose.
My concern about the whole appalling mess is that Fujitsu continues to be a firmly favoured contractor for government IT projects(including an extension to the Horizon contract) , and also was involved in an expensive NHS IT contract wrangle. Will the Post Office affair ensure that there is sufficient scrutiny of such contracts and their delivery? The phrase "lessons will be learned" is often bandied about but how often is it ever accompanied by meaningful action?

I did watch the dramatization, but I'll still have a look at the documentary. Unfortunately, "lessons will be learned" doesn't specify who will learn what, where or when. When I worked, many years ago, for a large oil company the stock response to any question, suggestion or complaint was "I hear what you say". .