Recommended Television Programmes

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I was supposing them to be Jungian archetypal stand-ins - have I got that right, anybody?

Yes - the pun ("anima/animus/animal") is intentional. They're not "talking animals" (they don't appear until next week - in armour), they're symbolic representations of the basic spirit of the individuals. Lyra isn't talking to a separate entity called Pan (or vice-versa) - she's talking to herself.

I think it's a reflection on at least one weak aspect of this adaptation, that many adults are having difficulty following concepts that 12-year-old readers have no problem understanding.

[jayne lee wilson]

Point taken fhg, but I'd be far more interested in how 12-year old viewers responded to the various human/animal interactions, qua TV Drama series, which is how I'm trying (and struggling) to get involved in it....
Won't it remind them of whispered confidences to their pets or teddybears?

If Lyra is in fact "talking to herself" with Pantalaimon, it just doesn't feel that way to me onscreen - perhaps because the daemons/animals are always physically embodied - they appear to be obedient pets; I feel one shouldn't need external explications to get that "self-projection", if it were an audiovisual success.
I guess I want, or need, to "feel it as I see it", if that makes any sense...
(I talk to my Cats all the time & they often respect my opinion, though they're not always obedient & their suggestions tend to be nonverbal....)

I of course researched various features online, but it didn't help me get into the TV drama itself much.....unless this realisation is mainly for previous/present readers of the books themselves, which raises all sorts of questions....

Still, new "talking animals in armour" (any Dragons? I do miss those GoT Dragons...) might get me back for next week.... so long as they're not attacking each other too violently ...(I don't mind them attacking humans so much....)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

That's what I was feeling might be the case, jayne - that what Pullman insinuates in his writing, and which is communicated thereby into the readers' individual imaginations, becomes literal and "flattened" on screen; it just looks like kids talking to talking animals.

But (IIRC) no animals are harmed by those in armour - several humans attempt to hurt them, and therefore quickly regret the more aggressive of their life choices!

[jayne lee wilson]

OK! I'll keep going.....
(And let's hope War of the Worlds ep. 2 is an utterly desolated red-out....)

[Richard Barrett]

I think it's a reflection on at least one weak aspect of this adaptation, that many adults are having difficulty following concepts that 12-year-old readers have no problem understanding.

In the film IIRC they're almost always in the frame, whereas in the series you often see a whole conversation in which they aren't visible, or only fleetingly, which is a mistake I think, their inseparability ought to be emphasised at every opportunity otherwise there are important aspects of the story that lose their impact.

[Nick Armstrong]

OK! I'll keep going.....
(And let's hope War of the Worlds ep. 2 is an utterly desolated red-out....)

There’s a comment in the Radio Times about ep. 2: “God it’s miserable”

Bodes well, Jayne!

[johncorrigan]

Has anybody been watching 'Guilt' on the Beeb? We've watched the first couple of episodes on catch-up. The first was one of the most excruciating watches I have experienced in a long time and also one of the funniest. I didn't think I was going to manage episode two, but watched it instead of 'QT' this evening. It's like watching the Scottish programme that David Lynch never made. On the strength of the first two episodes, if Mark Bonnar doesn't win some kind of award there is no justice - amazing performance. No idea what is happening but me and Mrs C are going along for the ride.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0009qm4

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

See posts 959 - 962, jc: your enthusiasm is shared!

[Richard Tarleton]

Has anybody been watching 'Guilt' on the Beeb? We've watched the first couple of episodes on catch-up. The first was one of the most excruciating watches I have experienced in a long time and also one of the funniest. I didn't think I was going to manage episode two, but watched it instead of 'QT' this evening. It's like watching the Scottish programme that David Lynch never made. On the strength of the first two episodes, if Mark Bonnar doesn't win some kind of award there is no justice - amazing performance. No idea what is happening but me and Mrs C are going along for the ride.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0009qm4

Completely brilliant, and such taut storytelling. We've watched the whole thing. After the first episode I wasn't sure where they could go for another three but I was wrong - great plot twists, nobody telling the truth or who they appeared to be......knockout. And a great turn (episodes 3 and 4) from Bill Paterson whose dulcet tones normally accompany the Edinburgh Tattoo (as well as being a terrific actor)


Compared to a recent Welsh offering, Keeping Faith, which was at least twice as long as it needed to be - didn't bother watching the sequel

[LMcD]

Completely brilliant, and such taut storytelling. We've watched the whole thing. After the first episode I wasn't sure where they could go for another three but I was wrong - great plot twists, nobody telling the truth or who they appeared to be......knockout. And a great turn (episodes 3 and 4) from Bill Paterson whose dulcet tones normally accompany the Edinburgh Tattoo (as well as being a terrific actor)


Compared to a recent Welsh offering, Keeping Faith, which was at least twice as long as it needed to be - didn't bother watching the sequel

I fully share your enthusiasm for 'Guilt'. At the risk of stirring up an old hornets' nest, I think the almost complete absence of 'background' music helped at least this viewer to concentrate even more on the excellent standard of acting throughout. I'm a long-time admirer of Bill Paterson, from 'The Singing Detective' to Victoria Wood's take on 'Brief Encounter' .
While on the subject of top-rate TV drama, I don't share the lack of enthusiasm of some for 'World On Fire', despite the rather contrived (non-) ending that was clearly written in the hope or knowledge that there is to be a 2nd series. The scenes between Lesley Manville and Hugh Bean were electrifying and the interweaving of the stories in the different theatres of war was masterly.

[Nick Armstrong]

While on the subject of top-rate TV drama, I don't share the lack of enthusiasm of some for 'World On Fire', despite the rather contrived (non-) ending that was clearly written in the hope or knowledge that there is to be a 2nd series. The scenes between Lesley Manville and Hugh Bean were electrifying and the interweaving of the stories in the different theatres of war was masterly.

Hugh Bean ... taking a break from the Philharmonia etc. and from being, alas, dead.

I completely agree with what you say about World on Fire, followed it avidly too. Sean Bean and especially Lesley Manville were terrific, and the storytelling was compelling. I was glad of the ‘to be continued...’ ending.

[LMcD]

Hugh Bean ... taking a break from the Philharmonia etc. and from being, alas, dead.

I completely agree with what you say about World on Fire, followed it avidly too. Sean Bean and especially Lesley Manville were terrific, and the storytelling was compelling. I was glad of the ‘to be continued...’ ending.

Whoops! That's the last time I shall consult Baldrick's Big Book Of Beans.

[jayne lee wilson]

WORLD ON FIRE...?

...Lady Posho (complete with agonised-son accessory), Northern-Working-Man of limited emotional reach but many tears, endless pregnancy-and-baby melodrama...tough-cookie American-in-Berlin journalist...the colour-by-numbers scripting...
The er, final cliffhanger....? The lorry is here to save us! To escape! Oh wait a minute, what's that machine gun doing there... I was about 3 steps ahead at this point....

Yes it had the "unflinching" "devastating" Polish scenes, Gay Jazzers locked up in Paris, but....how often have we been here before?
I looked in vain for some spark of individuality, someone to identify with or latch onto....(Or even, too much to ask....better acting.).
The late scene in the Hangar - will the MIA, doggily-faithful Etonian Spitfire Pilot return after being shot down? Won't he? Hooray, here he is just a little soaked & shabby! I love you! I love you too! Oh for Gods Sake, really...

I'm sorry, just..... no. Sunday Evening BBCTV, ticking stereotyped boxes and paying its respects...Its grim and can only get grimmer.. The most frightening image in World on Fire was the final screen.... "World on Fire....will return..."
Oh God No. Please No More.

***
(Remember Band of Brothers? Different context yeah, but THAT's how you do it....you have to make your viewer CARE about how they all make out.....wonder how the old 70s effort, "Family at War" with the VW theme tune, would stack up here...)

***
The best Drama series of the autumn, Cal, is unscripted, live, worldwide, reality TV, involving four wheels and pitstops....

[LMcD]

WORLD ON FIRE...?

...Lady Posho (complete with agonised-son accessory), Northern-Working-Man of limited emotional reach but many tears, endless pregnancy-and-baby melodrama...tough-cookie American-in-Berlin journalist...the colour-by-numbers scripting...
The er, final cliffhanger....? The lorry is here to save us! To escape! Oh wait a minute, what's that machine gun doing there... I was about 3 steps ahead at this point....

Yes it had the "unflinching" "devastating" Polish scenes, Gay Jazzers locked up in Paris, but....how often have we been here before?
I looked in vain for some spark of individuality, someone to identify with or latch onto....(Or even, too much to ask....better acting.).
The late scene in the Hangar - will the MIA, doggily-faithful Etonian Spitfire Pilot return after being shot down? Won't he? Hooray, here he is just a little soaked & shabby! I love you! I love you too! Oh for Gods Sake, really...

I'm sorry, just..... no. Sunday Evening BBCTV, ticking stereotyped boxes and paying its respects...Its grim and can only get grimmer.. The most frightening image in World on Fire was the final screen.... "World on Fire....will return..."
Oh God No. Please No More.

***
(Remember Band of Brothers? Different context yeah, but THAT's how you do it....you have to make your viewer CARE about how they all make out.....wonder how the old 70s effort, "Family at War" with the VW theme tune, would stack up here...)

***
The best Drama series of the autumn, Cal, is unscripted, live, worldwide, reality TV, involving four wheels and pitstops....

We've recently watched 'A Family At War' again, and although it has stood the test of time quite well despite the sometimes sloppy production, in the final analysis it's basically nothing more than a superior soap opera.
As for 'World On Fire', we actually DO care about what happens to some of the characters. particularly those played by Sean Bean and Lesley Manville, who's incapable of delivering anything other than total conviction and subtlety even when playing somebody who, in the hands of a lesser performer, would have emerged as a one-dimensional character. I'm sure there's a lot more to be discovered about these two - individually and in relation to each other.

[gradus]

The World at War currently airing on Yesterday remains one of the greatest achievements of the Medium. The combination of period film and interviews with historically important witnesses eg Speer and one of Hitler's personal secretaries in a recent episode, together with Olivier's command of the script, is peerless. Utterly gripping.