Recommended Television Programmes

[LMcD]

Yes well I know I’m in a minority. Yes they’ve used Hampton Court but trouble is it just doesn’t look right. Sometimes sets work better. Part of my problem is the two leads are so recognisable and the pace is so slow. I’m reading a lot of Shakespeare history plays at the moment . Strikes me they could learn a lot from the master about pacing ,intercutting contrast and oh yes a tiny bit of visual poetry. It’s all so penny plain. TV is a visual medium and these feels like radio . Sorry but there it is .

Tuppence coloured for me, but, as you say, there it is.

[Nick Armstrong]

And so far not a single memorable shot. It’s been done on the cheap sadly and looks it.

One can have different views about the acting style or dramatic power or otherwise of the series (I think a lot depends on one’s mood - a couple of times I’ve sighed when embarking the start of another episode with Cromwell looking mournful to Ms. Wiseman’s lugubrious soundtrack - other times I’ve revelled in it)…

… but I must take issue with the above, or that “It’s all so penny plain”… That’s one thing it’s not, at least on my TV. The sumptuous sets & costumes & shot compositions (recreating contemporary images) are a visual treat, imho.

[gradus]

I haven't read the books but assume that the dramatisation reflects the style and pace of Mantel's telling of Cromwell's story and for me it is riveting television. Fine performances all round and it makes me want to read Diarmaid macCulloch's biography of the man.

[kernelbogey]

Hats off to all here for a very interesting & good natured debate about Wolf Hall. I recommend the three novels that the tv is based on: a good long winter's read.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Hats off to all here for a very interesting & good natured debate about Wolf Hall. I recommend the three novels that the tv is based on: a good long winter's read.

Well it’s a bit of a one sided one - EH contra forum as it were - but thanks for saying it’s good natured. In that spirit to answer various points at the risk of exhausting peoples patience.

Nick - yes the costumes are sumptuous but I find myself asking is that real sable and what’s behind those weird detached house style hats the ladies wear? All because I’m not gripped . I didn’t notice the music which might be a good thing .

Gradus - interesting point . I read a lot of contemporary fiction so consequently have a very high tolerance for tedium. I’ve read virtually all of Hilary’s books which with their rather quirky mix of the comic and the serious play to my similar nature. But I’ve started Wolf Hall three times and never read more than 20 pages. It’s pace is a bit glacial but no more glacial than My Struggle by Knuassgard where I only have one volume left. Maybe I just find Norwegians more interesting than the Tudors.

Theres a real trend in TV frame for overly slow pace - witness the moribund “The Jackal “ which has ruined memories of a wonderful film - a film that is beautifully paced and directed. The Jackal is terrible stuff - hugely over hyped by the press.

Just reading one of the “weaker” Shakespeare histories King Henry VI Part One . Put TMATL on at the Globe* and the groundlings would be reaching for the orange peel. The former has a real pace and the rants - the protagonists spend a lot of the time ranting and threatening each other - are just better written (fair enough he was a genius)

*brave repertoire choice admittedly and unlikely to get past the Lord Chamberlain or Keeper of the Queen’s whatever it was….

[LMcD]

Well it’s a bit of a one sided one - EH contra forum as it were - but thanks for saying it’s good natured. In that spirit to answer various points at the risk of exhausting peoples patience.

Nick - yes the costumes are sumptuous but I find myself asking is that real sable and what’s behind those weird detached house style hats the ladies wear? All because I’m not gripped . I didn’t notice the music which might be a good thing .

Gradus - interesting point . I read a lot of contemporary fiction so consequently have a very high tolerance for tedium. I’ve read virtually all of Hilary’s books which with their rather quirky mix of the comic and the serious play to my similar nature. But I’ve started Wolf Hall three times and never read more than 20 pages. It’s pace is a bit glacial but no more glacial than My Struggle by Knuassgard where I only have one volume left. Maybe I just find Norwegians more interesting than the Tudors.

Theres a real trend in TV frame for overly slow pace - witness the moribund “The Jackal “ which has ruined memories of a wonderful film - a film that is beautifully paced and directed. The Jackal is terrible stuff - hugely over hyped by the press.

Just reading one of the “weaker” Shakespeare histories King Henry VI Part One . Put TMATL on at the Globe* and the groundlings would be reaching for the orange peel. The former has a real pace and the rants - the protagonists spend a lot of the time ranting and threatening each other - are just better written (fair enough he was a genius)

*brave repertoire choice admittedly and unlikely to get past the Lord Chamberlain or Keeper of the Queen’s whatever it was….

May I recommend 'Henry VIII's Enforcer', which is available on iPlayer for the next 20 days? One may not agree with the presenter's conclusions, but I learnt a great deal from this programme which deepened my understanding of the events on which the book and TV series are based.
I'm not sure that it actually matters whether it's real sable or not, and the music is used sparingly and at telling moments.

[kernelbogey]

...I’ve started Wolf Hall three times and never read more than 20 pages.….

I remember struggling with Wolf Hall, i.e. the first of the three novels, chiefly because HM consistently uses 'he' throughout to indicate Cromwell's interior monologue, and I found it a confusing literary device. She stopped doing that in the second book.

I'm weak on history - I had a history teacher at grammar school who was quite mad, probably with PTSD - and a very poor teacher. The school's (or his) history curriculum went from the fourteenth century to, er, maybe the 19th, but I dropped it in favour of physics when obliged to make a choice, so for a time knew quite a lot about the Battle of Crecy but nothing about the rise of Nazi Germany - which had probably destroyed the teacher's mind.

So I found (and still find) it difficult to appreciate HM's large cast of characters. Watching the tv series I still find myself quietly rehearsing divorced-beheaded-died-divorced-beheaded-survived to be sure who I am watching on screen.

[Belgrove]

Unlike EH I find The Mirror and the Light without fault from every aspect - its production values and shot composition, it’s measured and subtle screenplay, where reticence and silence can be used as a weapon, and the quality of the acting by the principals and incidentals. It’s a remarkable achievement.

Where I agree wholeheartedly with EH is over The Jackal, which is bloated and lacks the plausibility that made the original so compelling. The principal fault lies through opening up the lives of the assassin and his hunter. It’s interesting that the scene where the Jackal tests his new rifle in the countryside is recreated, shot for shot, from the original - because it cannot be improved upon. (But I’ll still watch the final episode).

[LMcD]

I remember struggling with Wolf Hall, i.e. the first of the three novels, chiefly because HM consistently uses 'he' throughout to indicate Cromwell's interior monologue, and I found it a confusing literary device. She stopped doing that in the second book.

I'm weak on history - I had a history teacher at grammar school who was quite mad, probably with PTSD - and a very poor teacher. The school's (or his) history curriculum went from the fourteenth century to, er, maybe the 19th, but I dropped it in favour of physics when obliged to make a choice, so for a time knew quite a lot about the Battle of Crecy but nothing about the rise of Nazi Germany - which had probably destroyed the teacher's mind.

So I found (and still find) it difficult to appreciate HM's large cast of characters. Watching the tv series I still find myself quietly rehearsing divorced-beheaded-died-divorced-beheaded-survived to be sure who I am watching on screen.

I was obliged to drop history and geography in year 3, and physics, chemistry, art and music the following year, in order to concentrate on languages (ancient and modern). Strangely enough, I managed a very good result in 'O' level biology.,

[Ein Heldenleben]

I remember struggling with Wolf Hall, i.e. the first of the three novels, chiefly because HM consistently uses 'he' throughout to indicate Cromwell's interior monologue, and I found it a confusing literary device. She stopped doing that in the second book.

I'm weak on history - I had a history teacher at grammar school who was quite mad, probably with PTSD - and a very poor teacher. The school's (or his) history curriculum went from the fourteenth century to, er, maybe the 19th, but I dropped it in favour of physics when obliged to make a choice, so for a time knew quite a lot about the Battle of Crecy but nothing about the rise of Nazi Germany - which had probably destroyed the teacher's mind.

So I found (and still find) it difficult to appreciate HM's large cast of characters. Watching the tv series I still find myself quietly rehearsing divorced-beheaded-died-divorced-beheaded-survived to be sure who I am watching on screen.

yes indeed not so much confusing as irritating.
Indeed I’ve been doing the same mnemonic to keep the eyes open . I guess I’m just bored with the Tudors - massively over exposed on TV . I much preferred the Crown not least because of its sumptuous production values

[Ein Heldenleben]

Unlike EH I find The Mirror and the Light without fault from every aspect - its production values and shot composition, it’s measured and subtle screenplay, where reticence and silence can be used as a weapon, and the quality of the acting by the principals and incidentals. It’s a remarkable achievement.

Where I agree wholeheartedly with EH is over The Jackal, which is bloated and lacks the plausibility that made the original so compelling. The principal fault lies through opening up the lives of the assassin and his hunter. It’s interesting that the scene where the Jackal tests his new rifle in the countryside is recreated, shot for shot, from the original - because it cannot be improved upon. (But I’ll still watch the final episode).

Gave up after ep 2 . Seen the film ten times . Superb performances from Fox and that wonderful lugubrious French actor who died relatively recently.

[vinteuil]

Gave up after ep 2 . Seen the film ten times . Superb performances from Fox and that wonderful lugubrious French actor who died relatively recently.

Michael Lonsdale

[AuntDaisy]

Michael Lonsdale

How R3 has changed...
"La lampe donne sur ses yeux" with Mich(a)el Lonsdale, a play in French, broadcast in 1982 on R3. Auntie still has it in her archives.

[richardfinegold]

Black Doves with Keira Knightley. My wife loves it so I will probably be condemned to watch the whole thing. As far as I am concerned it’s a tired rip off of The Americans. In the latter show one at least understands the ideological underpinnings of the characters; the new show just likes the double dealings and the action for its own sake

[vinteuil]

Black Doves with Keira Knightley.

... we gave up after two episodes : absolute tut.

There have been some turkeys here of late - Black Doves, the Day of the Jackal series.
To compensate for which there have been some excellent things - Slow Horses, The Diplomat with Keri Russell and Rufus Sewell ...

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