BBC4 Sunday 27 May 10.30pm - Jonathan Meades on Jargon

[Serial_Apologist]

Always challenging, if not agreeable (with), posh Post-Punk-styled Meades is always worth watching:

The cultural commentator dissects politics, the law, football commentary, business, the arts, tabloid-speak and management consultancy to show how jargon is used to cover up, confuse and keep the public in the dark.

Is Meades a bit late on the scene with this by now well ploughed subject, or will he, as is his wont, offer much-needed fresh insights?

[eighthobstruction]

....memories of Calum da Jazbo who always enjoyed Meades prog's....looking forward to it.....

[jean]

...Is Meades a bit late on the scene with this by now well ploughed subject...?

Judging by his article in Radio Times, he is.

[Nick Armstrong]

Always challenging, if not agreeable (with), posh Post-Punk-styled Meades is always worth watching

Ah thanks for this reminder - noticed the other day that it was coming up, but failed to set to record. Definitely worth a look, at least...

[Serial_Apologist]

Judging by his article in Radio Times, he is.

I had the feeling Meades might have written that article after overindulging on offal the previous night.

As far as the programme was concerned, these days I tend to use Meades as a corrective, although his invective seems to have become increasingly caustic the older and uglier he gets, and gets to represent the world in his own image. While on grammar mis-usage and jargon I'm with him nearly all the way, when it comes to regionalism and accents I think he's all over the place, ignoring that RP is just one accent among many, and minimising the differences in how it expresses itself in different regions and circles. Meades championing of RP as coming from an age when it represented social advancement chimes badly with his stated anti-authoritarianism, which maybe he now over-reacts to having suppressed in the interests of a failed personal meritocratic quest. I found his "admission" to having overcome an early Southampton accent frankly suspect. To begin with, the Southampton accent is a strong one which I would suggest is extremely difficult to shed however much elocution was inculcated to counteract it, witness the survival of its strongest idiosyncracies having undergone "estuarisation". And did not Meades attend a public school? Bereft of a coherent left ideological consistency of standpoint Meades resorts to a defense of RP as a unifying, cross-regional aid to comprehension, bemoaning the persistence of regionally-accented and in his view dialectically challenged variety without examining why such persistence persists - which would involved a deeper examination (and indeed critique of a more thoroughgoing kind) into the significance of local pride that is absent from his viewpoints.

[gurnemanz]

Often very funny but lapsing into self-parody.

[jean]

I haven't watched it yet, but what I got from the article was a glorification of RP and a dispraising of regional accents.

Though it wasn't clear how far he was confusing RP with Standard English. Wilfred Pickles spoke SE an a Yorkshire accent.

[vinteuil]

... Meades championing of RP as coming from an age when it represented social advancement chimes badly with his stated anti-authoritarianism, which maybe he now over-reacts to having suppressed in the interests of a failed personal meritocratic quest. I found his "admission" to having overcome an early Southampton accent frankly suspect. To begin with, the Southampton accent is a strong one which I would suggest is extremely difficult to shed however much elocution was inculcated to counteract it, witness the survival of its strongest idiosyncrasies having undergone "estuarisation". And did not Meades attend a public school?

... 'Southampton'? - I thought he were a Salisbury boy.

He went to Salisbury Cathedral School, and then as a boarder to King's College, Taunton, which he described as "a dim, backward, muscular Christian boot camp" - from which he subsequently 'walked out'...

His autobiographical memoir is well worth reading -

http://amzn.eu/aiLG10Q

.

[Serial_Apologist]

... 'Southampton'? - I thought he were a Salisbury boy.

He went to Salisbury Cathedral School, and then as a boarder to King's College, Taunton, which he described as "a dim, backward, muscular Christian boot camp" - from which he subsequently 'walked out'...

His autobiographical memoir is well worth reading -

http://amzn.eu/aiLG10Q

.

Apologies then if I misheard Meades mentioning being born in the vicinity of Southampton. He did say something to the effect of having needed to rid himself of an accent of some sort.

[jean]

You didn't mishear - it was the identifiable remains of a Southampton accent he was mortified to have recognised.

I knew I'd be irritated by what he said about regional varieties of language. I thought I might gain some insighi from what he had to say about jargon, but I didn't.

And so many inaccuracies, even in his pet Latin quotes. There's no such phrase as post facto - it's ex post facto.

[greenilex]

Listened to the first half, and was amused by the presentation...but professional jargon has so much more and more interesting things waiting to be elucidated...and it is a help and not invariably a bugaboo.

[Serial_Apologist]

Listened to the first half, and was amused by the presentation...but professional jargon has so much more and more interesting things waiting to be elucidated...and it is a help and not invariably a bugaboo.

Were you miffed that he slagged off Southampton by association, greenilex?

[eighthobstruction]

....I thought his shimmysham was deductable. He didn't even mention that great Scot: Paul Lambert, but pain makes you feel alone. As a first attempt to be a social worker he was vindicated. It wouldn't be so bad if the tasks that are making him 'so' tired are 'so' banal....being kind and gentle are useful....