Vienna: Empire, Dynasty and Dream, BBC4 Dec 8

[Petrushka]

A new three part series on BBC4 presented by Simon Sebag Montefiore telling the story of the Habsburg dynasty. Lovingly photographed around the architectural and artistic delights of Vienna this is quality BBC television of the highest possible order. Strongly recommended to all.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p046dxfw/vienna-empire-dynasty-and-dream-episode-1#

[johnb]

I was very much looking forward to this series and indeed it is visually glorious and Simon Sebag Montefiore was excellent.

BUT

In general I have problems when music is added as a background layer to speech. It isn't that I can't understand the speech but rather that my attention is constantly switching between the music and the speaker. As a result I find it difficult to concentrate on what is being said. IMO speech over music is fine if you want to wallow mindlessly but is not at all helpful if you are actively interested in the subject being discussed.

In this otherwise beautifully produced programme the background music was taken to a new level. It was almost continuous and rather than complementing and supporting the speech, the music continually fought against the narrator for attention. I found it so irritating and tiring to listen to that I gave up half way through, switched the sound off and relied on subtitles for the rest of the programme.

Am I the only person who has this problem with speech over music?

[Richard Tarleton]

Am I alone in finding SSM rather exhausting to listen to - he seems to declaim at us like a latter-day Demosthenes, with over-use of expansive phraseology, rather than speak normally to us - I find him even more exhausting than Waldemar Januszak, who is at least funny. I've read a couple of his books.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Am I the only person who has this problem with speech over music?

No - it causes the exact same problems for me, too; and for the reasons you mention. (And I've also had to resort frequently to the mute button and subtitles, too.)




(Not to mention when the Music is louder than the spoken narration - AND when they choose totally inappropriate Music (my partner used to recognize my scowl and ask "What've they done wrong now?" - to which I'd have to say that I'd not heard what had been said for the last couple of minutes, because I was trying to work out what the connection was between the invention of the Sedan chair and Finlandia.)

[kernelbogey]

i watched this because of a personal interest in Austria and a desire to know more about the Habsburgs. In general I agree with the OP.

But I also agree with Richard and, like johnb, became exhausted with the programme and only persisted so as not to miss anything. I found SSM's delivery very dense with information, and something about his delivery and that unwavering stare into the camera left me struggling to take in the content by the end of the programme.

I agree that the use of music in such programmes has become a distraction, and perhaps contributed to my difficulty in concentrating; though on this occasion I was not strongly aware of the music itself.

The overlaying of portraits on buildings was an odd innovation, and I'm not convinced about it.

[vinteuil]

.

... I was very much looking forward to this series (partly because I am not as well-informed as I wd like to be about the Habsburgs; not least because Mme v has just started Joseph Roth's The Radetzky March).

Sadly I share the unhappiness of others here: the music invasive, and Simon Sebag-Montefiore's awkward intensity progressively more irritating until I found it hard to concentrate.

I shall persevere with the next episodes, but am not much looking forward to them.

[jean]

And that he isn't very good at German is no reason to gabble inaudibly through the significance of AEIOU.

There's such a lot to cover, though. I am still not clear about the succession from Charlemagne. But he does fill in bits I know about, but not well enough - the Poles are so proud of their role in saving Vienna (and Europe) from the Turks, but this was a new light on Jan Sobieski.

[kernelbogey]

And that he isn't very good at German is no reason to gabble inaudibly through the significance of AEIOU

Isn't it astonishing that when so much research, care and preparation has gone into making a film about a German-speaking culture and city the producer doesn't think to have the presenter coached in basic German pronunciation?

[jean]

Yes! Or find a presenter who knows German?

Perhaps this is why this series doesn't feel as satisfactory as those where he seemed more engaged.

[kernelbogey]

he isn't very good at German

I can't help feeling that there's a touch of post-imperialism in British broadcasters' failings in this respect.

[richardfinegold]

.

... I was very much looking forward to this series (partly because I am not as well-informed as I wd like to be about the Habsburgs; not least because Mme v has just started Joseph Roth's The Radetzky March).

Sadly I share the unhappiness of others here: the music invasive, and Simon Sebag-Montefiore's awkward intensity progressively more irritating until I found it hard to concentrate.

I shall persevere with the next episodes, but am not much looking forward to them.

The Radetzky March is a great book (it was my introduction to Roth, and I've read most of his translated output since), but Mrs V. won't learn much about the history of the Hapsburgs from it. It is a nostalgic ode to the stability that the Austro Hungarian Empire gave to the region,, written from the perspective of the post World War I Political chaos that was the result of their decline

[vinteuil]

The Radetzky March is a great book (it was my introduction to Roth, and I've read most of his translated output since), but Mrs V. won't learn much about the history of the Hapsburgs from it. It is a nostalgic ode to the stability that the Austro Hungarian Empire gave to the region,, written from the perspective of the post World War I Political chaos that was the result of their decline

... my idea was rather that this series wd provide a good historical background to her reading of the Roth with his description of the deliquescence of the whole K-und-K world.

I have not yet been brave enough to suggest she might like to launch into Musil's The Man Without Qualities, or Heimito von Doderer's The Demons...

.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Without_Qualities

[Petrushka]

Contrary to others here, I barely noticed the music at all and found SSM's flow of information just right. His intensity of delivery didn't bother me one jot, indeed I found it engaging rather than tiring, but agree that his German pronunciation jarred somewhat. This was intelligent, high quality television that was the very opposite of dumbing down and I'm greatly looking forward to the other two episodes as they will cover the ground in which I have most interest.

Presumably there will be a book to come out of this series and I've said before on here that we lack a major study of Vienna at the turn of the 19th into the 20th centuries in all its political, social and artistic complexity. There is a big story to tell in just the years from 1889 to 1918.

[vinteuil]

... I suppose if it's Facts one is after, one is better served by the wikipede -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg

The photography, tho', on this telly programme was interesting for someone like me who has never been to Vienna.

God, those iron-skulled Habsburg tombs were hideous!

[Pianorak]

Am I the only person who has this problem with speech over music?

You most certainly are not. There have been countless complaints over the years to BBC programme makers (and presumably others) without any success.