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  • smittims
    Full Member
    • Aug 2022
    • 4113

    Even if Edith did invent the whole thing (which I suspect), its a lovely story. Thanks.

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    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30259

      Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

      Is that the same book as Every Man Dies Alone? It was retitled when the movie was made
      Yes, it is. Jeder stirbt für sich allein​ is more accurately rendered as Every Man Dies Alone.
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • CallMePaul
        Full Member
        • Jan 2014
        • 789

        Akhenaten - Egypt's False Prophet - by Nicholas Reeves. Published in 2001, so before the DNA work on 18th Dynasty pharoahs which has changed some of his views, but still an enjoyable read that has taught me things I was previously unaware of.

        Intriguing is a passing reference to one Aper-el, a foreign-born vizier of lower Egypt in the reigns of Amenophis III and Akhenaten. Could a memory of this be a basis for the story of Joseph in Genesis, which was written centuries later? I need to investigate this further.

        Comment

        • johncorrigan
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 10349

          Originally posted by richardfinegold View Post

          Is that the same book as Every Man Dies Alone? It was retitled when the movie was made
          Same book, Richard. I didn't know that. I will have a look for the film. One of the strange things about this most interesting and enjoyable book is that the chapter titles often give you an idea of what is about to happen in the chapter...like telling you a character is about to die, or be arrested or the like. I really enjoyed this. It also has an afterword telling the story of the author's troubled life, and the story of the case which inspired the novel.

          Comment

          • Ein Heldenleben
            Full Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 6770

            Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post
            Just downloaded The Ambassadors to my Kindle. Almost immediately derailed by this passage from the Preface:

            "I could even remember no occasion on which, so confronted, I had found it of a livelier interest to take stock, in this fashion, of suggested wealth. For I think, verily, that there are degrees of merit in subjects—in spite of the fact that to treat even one of the most ambiguous with due decency we must for the time, for the feverish and prejudiced hour, at least figure its merit and its dignity as possibly absolute. What it comes to, doubtless, is that even among the supremely good—since with such alone is it one’s theory of one’s honour to be concerned—there is an ideal beauty of goodness the invoked action of which is to raise the artistic faith to its maximum.​"

            Only another 500 pages to go.
            If you think The Ambassadors is tricky then The Wings Of The Dove is more so, and the Golden Bowl is in places impenetrable. It sounds like I’m bragging but I’ve read all of them at least 4 times and there are still passages where I can’t work out what on earth HJ is going on about. There is a serious school of critical thought that he was partly senile when writing some of these . He dictated some of them and I’m pretty sure at the end of some sentences he wasn’t sure how he’d started. I wouldn’t read the Prefaces - it’s all part of his elliptical game with the reader.
            There’s one chapter near the end of The Ambassadors where the “hero” goes to a small restaurant near a river in the French countryside which I think is one of the finest in all European fiction. I envy you reading it for the first time.
            ”Live all you can - it’s a mistake not to.”

            Comment

            • vinteuil
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 12801

              Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

              There’s one chapter near the end of The Ambassadors where the “hero” goes to a small restaurant near a river in the French countryside which I think is one of the finest in all European fiction. I envy you reading it for the first time.
              ”Live all you can - it’s a mistake not to.”
              ... also the memorable meal earlier on when he lunches with Mme de Vionnet in a restaurant near Notre-Dame for mere pleasure’s sake :

              "How could he wish it to be lucid for others, for any one, that he, for the hour, saw reasons enough in the mere way the bright clean ordered water-side life came in at the open window?—the mere way Madame de Vionnet, opposite him over their intensely white table-linen, their omelette aux tomates, their bottle of straw-coloured Chablis, thanked him for everything almost with the smile of a child, while her grey eyes moved in and out of their talk, back to the quarter of the warm spring air, in which early summer had already begun to throb, and then back again to his face and their human questions."

              Comment

              • Ein Heldenleben
                Full Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 6770

                Originally posted by vinteuil View Post

                ... also the memorable meal earlier on when he lunches with Mme de Vionnet in a restaurant near Notre-Dame for mere pleasure’s sake :

                "How could he wish it to be lucid for others, for any one, that he, for the hour, saw reasons enough in the mere way the bright clean ordered water-side life came in at the open window?—the mere way Madame de Vionnet, opposite him over their intensely white table-linen, their omelette aux tomates, their bottle of straw-coloured Chablis, thanked him for everything almost with the smile of a child, while her grey eyes moved in and out of their talk, back to the quarter of the warm spring air, in which early summer had already begun to throb, and then back again to his face and their human questions."
                SPOILER
                Yes - wonderful.
                Why doesn’t Strether read the signals with M de V ? Why doesn’t he accept Maria ?
                Have ever wanted to be in any scene more than that meal with the veal cutlet? The way James transmutes the Lambinet painting into the idealised vision of the village.
                and then the kicker …
                It’s masterly.

                Comment

                • smittims
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2022
                  • 4113

                  Just about to start re-reading David Copperfield. I've never been a Dickens fan but I have enjoyed and appreciated some of his novels.

                  Dickens has take a lot of stick recently from feminists etc. and people who seem to be telling us he was politically incorrect by 21st centtury standards and so we shouldn''t read him. Have any of you been 'put off' a book by what you've been told about its author?

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30259

                    Originally posted by smittims View Post
                    Have any of you been 'put off' a book by what you've been told about its author?
                    I'm not sure whether a 'balanced curiosity' would be enough to make me bother with Ayn Rand. As for 'Dickens the misogynist' it's a characteristic of the judgemental present age - and by no means just feminists - to misunderstand the lesson of history, the vast mass of human beings being prisoners of their own age, its assumptions, attitudes and behaviour, tinged with individual inclinations and experiences.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Ein Heldenleben
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 6770

                      Originally posted by smittims View Post
                      Just about to start re-reading David Copperfield. I've never been a Dickens fan but I have enjoyed and appreciated some of his novels.

                      Dickens has take a lot of stick recently from feminists etc. and people who seem to be telling us he was politically incorrect by 21st centtury standards and so we shouldn''t read him. Have any of you been 'put off' a book by what you've been told about its author?
                      Never seen a single credible article by some one who knows what they are talking about which suggests we shouldn’t read Dickens. His critical stock has never been higher and he remains the most popular classic literary fiction author in the world. Very few achieve that - mass audience and literary critical acclaim - maybe just Shakespeare and Austen . Bleak House for example is arguably the greatest English Novel - on publication it earned Dickens a record advance - running into millions in todays money. It’s still selling by the tens of thousands globally and is a key text in any academic course in the 19th century novel.

                      Comment

                      • Ein Heldenleben
                        Full Member
                        • Apr 2014
                        • 6770

                        Originally posted by french frank View Post

                        I'm not sure whether a 'balanced curiosity' would be enough to make me bother with Ayn Rand. As for 'Dickens the misogynist' it's a characteristic of the judgemental present age - and by no means just feminists - to misunderstand the lesson of history, the vast mass of human beings being prisoners of their own age, its assumptions, attitudes and behaviour, tinged with individual inclinations and experiences.
                        Dickens treated his first wife very badly that is true . There’s little evidence of misogyny in the novels. They have though been criticised for their rather sketchy portraits of woman . They either tend to be idealised embodiments of threatened virtue e,g, Kate Nickleby or caricatures e.g. Miss Havisham - some one who’s personality is driven by one motive. But then there are people like that . He does write some interesting female characters E.g. the ennui of Lady Dedlock in Bleak House and thinly veneered sadism of Estelle in Great Expectations.

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                        • Sir Velo
                          Full Member
                          • Oct 2012
                          • 3225

                          Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post

                          Never seen a single credible article by some one who knows what they are talking about which suggests we shouldn’t read Dickens. His critical stock has never been higher and he remains the most popular classic literary fiction author in the world. Very few achieve that - mass audience and literary critical acclaim - maybe just Shakespeare and Austen . Bleak House for example is arguably the greatest English Novel - on publication it earned Dickens a record advance - running into millions in todays money. It’s still selling by the tens of thousands globally and is a key text in any academic course in the 19th century novel.
                          I'm sure you're right. His stock was certainly not high when I read Eng Lit at Cambridge back in the 90s. If there were a pecking order of 19th century novelists back them he definitely came behind Eliot, James, the Bronte sisters et al.

                          Comment

                          • Ein Heldenleben
                            Full Member
                            • Apr 2014
                            • 6770

                            Originally posted by Sir Velo View Post

                            I'm sure you're right. His stock was certainly not high when I read Eng Lit at Cambridge back in the 90s. If there were a pecking order of 19th century novelists back them he definitely came behind Eliot, James, the Bronte sisters et al.
                            Interesting . I would have put the low point in the 60’s when Leavis accused him of a lack of seriousness maintaining somewhat bizarrely that Hard Times was the only novel worth studying . He famously and equally bizarrely recanted in Dickens The Novelist.
                            At Oxford where things were less prescriptive the main barrier to studying him was the length of the books .

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                            • smittims
                              Full Member
                              • Aug 2022
                              • 4113

                              I'd certainly rank Dickens above Eliot and the Brontes but not necessarily higher than Austen. Yes,the length may be off-putting, but, as with Scott (and dare I add Wagner?) I think it's a mistake to try to skip bits (the opening chapters perhaps) to get to 'the real story', as I have seen recommended. One needs to give it time and read every word carefully fromthe very opening , and it will reveal its magic. .

                              Comment

                              • LMcD
                                Full Member
                                • Sep 2017
                                • 8433

                                'A Darker Domain' by the 'Queen of Crime', Val McDermid.

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