What are you reading now?

[smittims]

Good to hear someone else struggled with Boulez on Music Today, as I did! I approached it hoping for some clarity and explanation of the approach to music by a composer I admired , but I kept feeling that he was being deliberately opaque and even sometimes that the book was a sort of spoof, like Gerard Hoffnung's parody of a lecture on 12-tone music.

I gather the translators had some difficulty. In a fascinating book by Joan Peyser (admittedly a topical work fifty years ago which is now outdated) she quotes Susan Bradshaw:

'The expanations are so intricate and detailed; even when challenged he refused to explain them. I believe it was wilful secrecy on his part. He showed little interest in the book. He never looked at the copy of the typescript.'

Now I just sit back an listen to Boulez' music, which I find much more rewarding.

[DracoM]

[vinteuil]

I found Proust annoying because Swann could not see that he was being used by his partner.

Proust creates a (complicated) character, Swann, who is (to some extent, and to his own irritation) in thrall to a woman ("who is not even his type!"), who, perhaps, understandably in the context, "uses" him.

Why is it "annoying" for you that Proust has created this (multifaceted, fascinating (for those who get to know him), contradictory (as most of us are)) character, impressive in so many ways, so humanly flawed? Did you get as far as his realisation that a little piece of yellow in a Vermeer was worth everything else and more??



.

[Serial_Apologist]

... but is 'difficult' bad?

.

In a general sense I would think it difficult to say. Boulez on Music Today I have found an incredibly difficult read, and despite having huge regard for his music I have had to give up on it several times now before reaching the end, French intellectuals often seem given to expressing what are essentially quite simple ideas in the most flowery prose, inventing square-shaped concepts and words for round holes. A (for me) adequate exposition of most of these very ideas was quite adequately summarised in Alan Watts's Psychotherapy East and West, and it may be that the reason he managed so to do was that his area of expertise was oriental philosophy rather than linguistics; and also that while himself English, he had lived for many years in the States and absorbed their more straightforward approach to explaining relative complex ideas compared with their dealings by European writers. Sartre's Critique de la raison dialectique is one example of many to follow in the broadly Postmodernist train of thought which includes the main suspects of post-Structuralism - Baudrillard et al. Music is a different matter if, like me, one's first impression based on aesthetics rather than formal considerations is the deciding factor. If I get the "general drift" without understanding the processes involved and sense "authority", which must consist in some connectivity elsewhere, I make that my starting point for investigating further.

[french frank]

I found Proust annoying because Swann could not see that he was being used by his partner.

This is the literary point I would take up in relation to your own reaction. Swann is just a fictional character created by Proust. As creator he is permitted to invent the characters he wants for his intended narrative. I remember going to a talk by Ian McEwan in Cheltenham at the time that his novel Atonement was published. He was irritated by the criticism: "Oh, no, not a protagonist who's a writer ... ". McEwan's reaction was, "Look, I'm the novelist and I can write a novel about a writer if I want to." Reader and critic have to take the given that this is the novel and it was how the author chose to write it. Within those parameters, understand what the author is trying to achieve. Swann was himself as depicted, just as everyone else is in real life. Some people are annoying That's life.

[smittims]

Wasn't there a graphic novel edition a few years ago? I saw only Swann's Way in that format.

I used to have a gramophone record of Ralph Richardson reading 'Swann in Love' (2Lp) and played it to various friends who went on to read at least vol.1. It's on YouTube.

[vinteuil]

I will admit to finding Proust difficult

... but is 'difficult' bad?

.

[richardfinegold]

I rarely agree with Ian on anything but I will admit to finding Proust difficult. I would like to find a class, perhaps on line, that takes me through it

[smittims]

How refreshing it is for this thread to return to Ian dismissing the whole of a la recherche in four words! Do try again, Ian; here are lifetime rewards in Proust if you give it time (no pun intended ).

And take comfort; you're not the first to be baffled by some aspects of the series. I think it was Sidney Schiff who excalimed in exasperation ' Just how old is he supposed to be? One minute his mother has to kiss him goodnight in bed, then he's off to a brothel with Bloch...'

Looking back, I think I found le Temps retrouve the most satisfying.

[DracoM]

Novels of Susan Hill, 'Michael Innes' etc

[Ian Thumwood]

Vintieul

I found Proust annoying because Swann could not see that he was being used by his partner. Just found that idea really annoying . I love humour in writing and could find none in that book.

I was also told that the Flash man series were a great read and really funny too. If you take the posterity argument, I read the first volume and ,whilst set in the First Afghan war , the book smacked on the 1960s when it was written. I did not find it that funny and , if you knew your history, the plot was very predictable. Attitudes also change and I felt alot of this book very very uncomfortable to read due to very sexist ideas and the racist attitudes. It can be read as a satire but, if you are aware of the author's political views which were akin to Farage, the books sit uncomfortably. Maybe one writer who is not for posterity but who should be cancelled ? ?

I really appreciate the dry humour of Atkinson and Kerr. It will be interesting to see how they age.

[Ian Thumwood]

I think that if I found that my opinion of something deviated from the generally held view, I would ponder on why that was and wonder whether, dear Brutus, the fault was in myself.

My reaction was not too dissimilar but more along the lines of why I felt similar books were better. In the case of the Huxley, its vision of a future seemed clumsy and inaccurate whereas Orwell's 1984 just seems timeless insofar that it seems to mirror each political generation. With Proust, the language may be beautiful whereas Alain-Fournier actually told a better story more quickly with similar language. Furthermore, I also found Swann to be an annoying character. I went through a stage of reading French literature and was recommended Proust by a friend. At first I loved it but nothing seemed to happen in the book. Much preferred Zola although he wrote a few stinkers.

Literally reputation is fascinating. Books are deeply personal and do feel let down if a book has a good reputation and I dislike it. It is equally fair to say that I feel some writers have a style of writing that should be considered higher. The prime example for me is James Herriot. His ability to recount an incident always struck me as a masterclass in succinct English.

[french frank]

French Frank

I had really high expectations of Huxley yet the opening scheme with babies in test tubes struck me as ridiculous. I think the predictable nature of the book was what annoyed me as you could tell exactly what would happy next. It became annoying.

There are a number of books that I feel are overrated. Proust was frustrating and I never got beyond the first volume.

I think that if I found that my opinion of something deviated from the generally held view, I would ponder on why that was and wonder whether, dear Brutus, the fault was in myself.

[vinteuil]

There are a number of books that I feel are overrated. Proust was frustrating and I never got beyond the first volume.

... ah, you found it frustrating. Perhaps Proust is not for you. But I don't think you can go on to say he is over-rated just because you were frustrated : many others feel differently...

[Ian Thumwood]

French Frank

I had really high expectations of Huxley yet the opening scheme with babies in test tubes struck me as ridiculous. I think the predictable nature of the book was what annoyed me as you could tell exactly what would happy next. It became annoying.

There are a number of books that I feel are overrated. Proust was frustrating and I never got beyond the first volume.