What are you reading now?

[Serial_Apologist]

I acknowledge the need for posters to back up as factually or evidentially as possible on views they may hold, having come near to capsizing myself on this very issue of insistence on not wavering from my own initial positions. Perhaps - dare I say? - there's enough of this kind of thing going on in the world right now to wind down on all sides? After all, this isn't a court of law.

[french frank]

Well, you find what you want to look for, perhaps,,and vice versa. And as for obituaries, de mortuis nil nisi bonum seems to be the rule .

And other explanations available. I think official obituaries of well-known people are under no obligation to be flattering. They can be short, objective and factual (Ayn Rand). Or again (Barbara Cartland). Both of these capture the essence of the writer's work: why would they need to be unduly flattering? In both the obituaries I quote, the essence of the writings is captured.

I'm not sure how your first sentence applies. I wanted to find evidence to support your claims. It would be easier for you to quote examples - even going from memory without needing to find the exact quotes - than for me to read through several novels by several novelists in order to find what may or may not be there. To simply declare that the evidence is there if I care to look properly might be dismissed as akin to invoking the logical fallacy of petitio principii. That is, the evidence is there to prove your point when the whole point of seeking the evidence is to discover whether your point is valid or not.

[smittims]

Well, you find what you want to look for, perhaps,,and vice versa.And as for obituaries, de mortuis nil nisi bonum seems to be the rule .

[french frank]

I've read the obituary of Elizabeth Jane Howard. Couldn't see anything that remotely suggested a man-hating female. I read the obituary of Penelope Mortimer. It was written by a man and the opening sentence states that she 'might not immediately be thought of as a feminist', though she 'took up the cudgels' on behalf of women. I had heard of The Pumpkin Eater. Both women were praised as 'good writers'.

Salley Vickers wrote a novel called Miss Garnet's Angel which I remember reading. At least, I remember that it was set in Venice and the protagonist was an historian or archaeologist or something. I don't recall anything particular about men.

I couldn't trace any novels by Carla Lane who seems to have been a writer of TV series and couldn't identify any writer called Kate Sharam. There was a Kate Sharma but she appears to have been a character in a Netflix film.

So my search for supporting evidence of pernicious feminism drew a blank, I'm afraid.

[Ian Thumwood]

Smittims

I read a wide range of books but prefer things which are well written when it comes to fiction. As I said, I have no axe to grind with female writers but have to say I do not really like American writers if I have any prejudice. I have read Anerican novels and there are some I have enjoyed . However, there are booksike Grand Circle I have had to give up with. It is rare for me to abandon a novel....the last was 'The Essex serpent ' which was a Victorian pastiche.

I would never pick up any chick lit as I do not have time to read all the books I want to. They do not appeal and even some of the crime stuff like The Girl in the train ' did not resonate. What I did find is that my sympathies with the characters was a bit harsher that the author probably anticipated. It is also reading things written from a female perspective that has an attraction. In my mind, it is the relationship aspect in the wider that piques my curiosity . Not sure I would want to read anything sexual from the point of view of a woman, though!

It is intriguing to see what the different sexes make of books. My wife never reads and see books as a waste of time. This is in contrast to me as I love reading and discussing books.

One issue I do have is blokes writing in the first person as a woman. I am a big fan of William Boyd but felt that Sweet Caress was unconvincing because of this. Do any female readers feel the same as me on this ? Oddly, I think some female writers deal with male characters well. Again , I think Kate Atkinson is excellent but you could add Pineiro or Karen Blixen to the list. I particularly like books with good dialogue and not fussed what era they come from if the writer is of a good standard. Atkinson really gets how the opposite sexes speak to and think about each other. She is very accurate and probably one of the best writers who can do this.

[french frank]

I wonder how many women read them. Holmes is sometimes suggested to be what today would be called a misogynist.

I haven't read them recently but do still value the full-length works. It's irrelevant whether Holmes, a fictional character, is a misogynist: Watson is the gentle counterbalance.

I read the online newspapers - more accurately, I pay £75 pa to read the Guardian, but I also read the selected stories in the populist papers. I haven't had a TV for 20 years and no longer listen to radio other than for research purposes - as I will read the Mail, Express or Telegraph (know thine enemy).

[Belgrove]

Patricia Highsmith is an example of a female thriller/crime writer whose subjects are mostly men. They are invariably bad men who do bad things, and yet they are compelling, and even sometimes sympathetic, characters. Moreover the novels have made highly successful transfers to the screen, possibly because her spare style gives actors plenty of space to develop a character. A variety of actors have played Tom Ripley, for example, and each found intriguing character traits which fit with Highsmith’s creation on the page (with the possible exception of Dennis Hopper). Looking forward to seeing Andrew Scott’s latest incarnation.

[smittims]

Yes, and in reply to FF's question about where we find the time to read novels, I have to say , I don't read newspapers (also I don't watch the news ,or hardly any TV ). In the UK recently (it was started by the Blair administration) we've had 'book day' where schoolchildren are encouraged to read novels, partly as I said earlier because,although fiction,they can embody human truths, and partly, as CS Lewis said, 'we read to know that we are not alone'.

I'm re-reading 'The Sign of Four' by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. The Sherlock Holmes stories are so well-known from radio, TV and film that one can forget how well-written they are, this and The Hound of the Baskervilles' being the best, I think. Admittedly in his later short stories he sometimes became stuck for ideas and the plots become a little contrived, while :A Study in Scarlet' and 'The Valley of Fear' always strike me as non-Sherlocks forced into the canon by adding a Holmes-and-Watson beginning and end. But overall, they retain a loyal readership.

I wonder how many women read them. Holmes is sometimes suggested to be what today would be called a misogynist.

[richardfinegold]

I’ve read all the Phillip Kerr novels but don’t know Ian Rankin. There are quite a lot of these books. Where would one start?
I have read some novels that would probably fit the type that Smittins has described. The most recent was The Woman, by Kristin Hannah, about American Nurses in the Vietnam War. The morally correct characters are female, every important male is compromised ethically and unreliable. Is this a trend, a new genre? I’ve read 2 other books by the same author that do not have this point of view. As FF noted there are certain genres, such as action novels, that are cranked out to appeal to certain reader types and I don’t see why a genre for women who perceive the world in these terms shouldn’t exist as well.
The entertainment world is fragmented. Before cable television and the explosion of streaming services there were only a few television channels and Americans of my generations all watched the same programming. We can all remember seeing the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, for example. Certain movies and books were iconic. I suspect the U.K. was the same. Now the market is carved up and literature is the same.
Book readership is dramatically down here. Many of the books on the best seller lists are Childrens books. I have many colleagues and friends, highly educated, that don’t read at all. Reading is a fundamentally different experience for brain processing than the screen, or listening to music. Many individuals here, such as FF, value reading so highly that they don’t wish to listen to music simultaneously. So rather than denigrate readers that read books that perhaps have certain formulas or stereotypes, I at least laud people for reading at all

[smittims]

I think you've shot yourself in the foot there, Ian. If you had read a cross-section of 'chick-lit' I think you would see how and why many books are indeed aimed specifically at women.

Since your phrase 'too generalised' was presumably a criticism, I'd be interested to know what you mean. I made it clear more than once that I was not criticising all novels written by women, and I mentioned some honourable excaptions. I also said that I was not criticisng the concept as such of books written specifically for women readers . I named several writers specifically who I find at fault in the way I desribed. What's 'too generalised' about that, please?

[smittims]

Just for the record, ff, I did stress more than once that I was simply expressing an opinion based on my own experience, as many others do here on other subjects every day. There was no thesis, no academic study. If one is to criticise (or as they say these days 'call out') a misleading trend it's only fair to do some background reading in the subject.This is what I did.

[Ian Thumwood]

Apparently they were friends. I think Kerr combined excellent research with cracking dialogue. His protagonist Bernie Gunther seemed to be experiencing an upturn in fortune by 'Greeks bearing gifts' and I was saddened that Kerr never lived long enough to bring the cycle to conclusion. He was a clever writer. That book riffed on Ian Fleming and another was a pastiche of Agatha Christie with a locked room murder.

Rankin is equally compelling but I feel tends to offer a commentary on contemporary society. I just love the world Rankin creates. I have the latest one ready to read.

[Petrushka]

I agree about crime writers being largely female. This was an oeuvre I used to dismiss until
I read a few Reginald Hill books which changed my opinion. I also have.enjoyed Ian Rankin and Philip.Kerr. My perception of female crime writers I had assumed them.to.be quite pulpy until I picked up one of the Kate Atkinson books which have incredible and witty dialogue. Have to say that I felt that Ann Cleeves seemed to be dreadful....the Shetland TV series being a massive improvement on the books.

I could never take to Ian Rankin (even though I once met him!) but greatly like Philip Kerr.

[Ian Thumwood]

I agree about crime writers being largely female. This was an oeuvre I used to dismiss until
I read a few Reginald Hill books which changed my opinion. I also have.enjoyed Ian Rankin and Philip.Kerr. My perception of female crime writers I had assumed them.to.be quite pulpy until I picked up one of the Kate Atkinson books which have incredible and witty dialogue. Have to say that I felt that Ann Cleeves seemed to be dreadful....the Shetland TV series being a massive improvement on the books.

[Petrushka]

I agree with the sentiment. The problem is that generalisations are imprecise but they are very easy to make. According to one website, the nine most violent novels of 'literary fiction' are all by men. Do they appeal only to men? I don't know. Do women write novels of violence? No idea. I suspect that most 'best seller' novelists are doing it for the money, writing for the hordes of snappers-up of unconsidered trifles.

Kathy Reichs and Patricia Cornwell have written books so gory that even my sister, a big crime book addict, couldn't stand them any longer and that's saying something, I can tell you!