Maestro - The Movie

[Historian]

It’s a movie, and I wouldn’t expect that it would have all the details faithfully reproduced

No, I am being unreasonable: however, as a choral singer it jarred with me.

I should add that I enjoyed the film, but I feel that anyone without some idea of the musical 'background' of the 1930s to the 1970s might have a hard time understanding what was going on at times.

[mikealdren]

I enjoyed it too although I certainly couldn't hear/understand all the dialogue.

[gradus]

Looking forward to streaming it from Netflix. The 1973 video of the Ely performance is inspirational but 50 years on I'm hoping for sonic and visual wonders in its reincarnation.

[richardfinegold]

No, I am being unreasonable: however, as a choral singer it jarred with me.

I should add that I enjoyed the film, but I feel that anyone without some idea of the musical 'background' of the 1930s to the 1970s might have a hard time understanding what was going on at times.

Absolutely. My wife was lost

[Ein Heldenleben]

No, I am being unreasonable: however, as a choral singer it jarred with me.

I should add that I enjoyed the film, but I feel that anyone without some idea of the musical 'background' of the 1930s to the 1970s might have a hard time understanding what was going on at times.

I think there was one clunky bit of dialogue when Felicia meets Lenny for the first time during which they give each other potted biographies- that just never happens in real life so neatly . Didn’t help that they used diminutives or first names for amongst other Jerome Robbins , Serge Koussevitsky, Dimitri Mitropolous , Aaron Copland. Lenny more or less hero worshiped the last three so it’s a pity more wasn't made of them.

[kindofblue]

I enjoyed it very much. Bradley Cooper wisely decided not to try and cover everything about Bernstein's life and career, much of which had been acted out in public already. [Although I haven't seen it, this would appear to be the failing of 'Napoleon']. Bernstein's passion for life and music, as well as the challenges of being a conductor, teacher, and composer came across very well. The heart of the film is of course his relationship with Felicia which I also found credible and at times intensely moving. Making a marriage work, in public, when the husband is a huge global celebrity with whom both men and women want to sleep, was handled with skill and sensitivity and mercifully zero virtue signaling. Carey Mulligan is outstanding, some of the close-up sections are incredible cinema. Of course there are gaps. I would have liked more about Bernstein on tour, more about his recording, but as I said earlier the film is inevitably a selection and those aspects of his life can be explored elsewhere. Is someone who saw the film who previously knew little of the man now more likely to explore his recordings or music? I think so, yes. I will now explore those Bernstein recordings that have until now eluded me, Haydn in particular, and some of his own pieces that I don't know but which I heard in the film. In both those respects therefore it's a hats off to Bradley Cooper for a job well done.

In an idle moment yesterday I went online to see what, if any, interaction there had been between Bernstein and Miles Davis. I was both interested and touched to read that, on the occasion of Bernstein's 70th birthday in 1988, Miles wrote to Bernstein saying 'You are one of America's true geniuses along with Monk, Gillespie, Mingus and Parker'. Class.

[gurnemanz]

We saw it on Boxing Day evening on Netflix and it was certainly well worth watching but afterwards we spent most of the time discussing its flaws and our general frustration with it. Poor script, sometimes not intelligible, disjointed narrative of random scenes. Cooper nailed a good approximation of the way Bernstein talked but he over-egged it and after a while it got on my nerves. Not enough music. Not enough evidence of him as a maestro.

It did not help Maestro that in the afternoon we had been to the Ritzy in Brixton and had the immediate comparison of watching a new movie which actually was brilliant, the new Alexander Payne, The Holdovers, featuring Paul Giamatti (Sideways).

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=mikealdren;n1294748]I enjoyed it too although I certainly couldn't hear/understand all the dialogue.[/

we streamed it on Netflix. I had my newish hearing aids, and we were watching on a new LG TV that we had bought and installed at my mother in laws house, and had the close caption option. Midway my left hearing aid began to distort, so we paused it and I removed them. Perhaps it was the closed captions, but I had no trouble hearing the dialogue after I removed them. I think the TV does a pretty good job with dialog

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=richardfinegold;n1294888]

I enjoyed it too although I certainly couldn't hear/understand all the dialogue.[/

we streamed it on Netflix. I had my newish hearing aids, and we were watching on a new LG TV that we had bought and installed at my mother in laws house, and had the close caption option. Midway my left hearing aid began to distort, so we paused it and I removed them. Perhaps it was the closed captions, but I had no trouble hearing the dialogue after I removed them. I think the TV does a pretty good job with dialog

I listened through my hifi ( 2 channel stereo from MacBook ) . I was struck how well separated (in terms of two channel levels ) the dialogue track was from fx tracks and music tracks. The music tracks were sumptuously recorded and not over compressed. In short a bit of a triumph.
The historic problems often came when you get poor compatibility with the surround sound version e,g, of the dialogue tracks haven’t been put at a high being level on the centre tracks. These days there’s little excuse for that as all the UK / EBU broadcasters have published a readily available guide to tech delivery requirements.

[Dave2002]

We saw it on Boxing Day evening on Netflix and it was certainly well worth watching but afterwards we spent most of the time discussing its flaws and our general frustration with it. Poor script, sometimes not intelligible, disjointed narrative of random scenes. Cooper nailed a good approximation of the way Bernstein talked but he over-egged it and after a while it got on my nerves. Not enough music. Not enough evidence of him as a maestro.

It did not help Maestro that in the afternoon we had been to the Ritzy in Brixton and had the immediate comparison of watching a new movie which actually was brilliant, the new Alexander Payne, The Holdovers, featuring Paul Giamatti (Sideways).

The point is that it wasn't only about music at all. Agree about the failings - but it might have taken a lot longer to get everything. Some of the problems could quite easily have been put right. There was far too much reliance on [some] people having background knowledge. As a film about an unusual relationship between two really exceptional people it had potential, which it didn't quite live up to. As a film about music it wasn't really so great at all - IMO.

[mikealdren]

[QUOTE=richardfinegold;n1294888]

I enjoyed it too although I certainly couldn't hear/understand all the dialogue.[/

we streamed it on Netflix. I had my newish hearing aids, and we were watching on a new LG TV that we had bought and installed at my mother in laws house, and had the close caption option. Midway my left hearing aid began to distort, so we paused it and I removed them. Perhaps it was the closed captions, but I had no trouble hearing the dialogue after I removed them. I think the TV does a pretty good job with dialog

Hi Richard,
You probably didn't have the language issues with it that we have in the UK!

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=mikealdren;n1294912]

Hi Richard,
You probably didn't have the language issues with it that we have in the UK!

Now you know how I feel watching the BBC

[richardfinegold]

[QUOTE=Ein Heldenleben;n1294903]

I listened through my hifi ( 2 channel stereo from MacBook ) . I was struck how well separated (in terms of two channel levels ) the dialogue track was from fx tracks and music tracks. The music tracks were sumptuously recorded and not over compressed. In short a bit of a triumph.
The historic problems often came when you get poor compatibility with the surround sound version e,g, of the dialogue tracks haven’t been put at a high being level on the centre tracks. These days there’s little excuse for that as all the UK / EBU broadcasters have published a readily available guide to tech delivery requirements.

That’s interesting. I am very frustrated trying to get decent dialogue from my 5.1 surround system

[Dave2002]

[QUOTE=richardfinegold;n1294969]

Now you know how I feel watching the BBC

Don't worry. The BBC [or a production company] managed to produce a TV series a few years ago - was it Jamaica Inn (Daphne Du Maurier) - which many people found completely unintelligible even over here.

[Ein Heldenleben]

[QUOTE=Dave2002;n1294975]

Don't worry. The BBC [or a production company] managed to produce a TV series a few years ago - was it Jamaica Inn (Daphne Du Maurier) - which many people found completely unintelligible even over here.

Indeed - and it was that together with other examples that led to much more work being done by broadcasters on surround sound / two channel stereo compatibility and ensuring also that dialogue tracks can be heard above very busy music and FX tracks. I think the other problem with Jamaica Inn was that there was a lot of on set mumbling. It doesn’t help that sound recordists and directors have to wear cans on set which obviously makes the speech stand out. They also know the script which makes dialogue ‘ psychologically’ more perceptible.
But the real problem is in dubbing theatres where dubbing mixers listen at high ish level on superb speakers in acoustically treated sound booths rather then on flat screen tvs with poor quality backward or side facing speakers.