Wolf Hall BBC2

[Richard Tarleton]

Having just finished reading The Plantaganets followed by The Hollow Crown, I'm just flabbergasted with how commonplace having your head cut off actually was (only once for each person obvs.) - did people value their lives less, to play when the stakes were so high? The odds practically 50/50 for anybody at the top. Quite apart from wives, ministers etc., Henry (and his father before him) executed anyone who even vaguely reminded them of a Plantaganet.

[Nick Armstrong]

...executed anyone who even vaguely reminded them of a Plantaganet.

Have a care, Bbm* !!!


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*One of the Sussex Plantagenets, for any Tudors who might not be in the know...

[Darkbloom]

Having just finished reading The Plantaganets followed by The Hollow Crown, I'm just flabbergasted with how commonplace having your head cut off actually was (only once for each person obvs.) - did people value their lives less, to play when the stakes were so high? The odds practically 50/50 for anybody at the top. Quite apart from wives, ministers etc., Henry (and his father before him) executed anyone who even vaguely reminded them of a Plantaganet.

It's the practical side that gives me the chills. We probably all learned in school that the axe was an unsure method of decapitation and it could take several goes to sever the head. The Earl of Essex took three blows, I believe. I always thought that noblemen had the option of a sword so I don't know why he didn't get it. Also that Thomas More would have got the whole HDQ treatment, but Henry was 'merciful' and just lopped his head off. The thing that gives me the chills even now when I think of it is reading an account of the French Revolution; in a provincial town in France the guillotine was blunt and it took a couple of dozen goes to finish off one poor devil. I expect many of you have been to the Tower of London; the Yeoman who did the tour I was on was quite lyrical about the excellent job the headsman did on Anne Boleyn. He seemed to admire him rather more than I felt comfortable with.

[Flosshilde]

Have a care, Bbm* !!!


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*One of the Sussex Plantagenets, for any Tudors who might not be in the know...

Doesn't bbm claim descent from the Tudors as well? (or was it the Stuarts?)

[Nick Armstrong]

Doesn't bbm claim descent from the Tudors as well? (or was it the Stuarts?)

I think we need to haul him before the Forum Assizes to account for his lineage!

[Anna]

Doesn't bbm claim descent from the Tudors as well? (or was it the Stuarts?)

It's from John of Gaunt via the wrong side of the blanket I think (we seem to have had a lot of those sort of blankets in our family as well)

To get back OT, does anyone have a recommendation for a good, truthful, and accurate, biography of Thomas Cromwell?

[BBMmk2]

Doesn't bbm claim descent from the Tudors as well? (or was it the Stuarts?)

Yes I do! Also the Norwegians, the Dukes of Burgundy and Lorraine, Queen Isobella of Casdtille(Catherine of Aragon's mum!), John of Gaunt....... Black Prince.......

[Richard Tarleton]

The leading authority on Cromwell and Tudor government when I was an undergrad in the late 60s was Geoffrey Elton...

and here http://www.academia.edu/2307733/A_Tu...is_Discontents - he changed the view of Cromwell from that point of view.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

The odds practically 50/50 for anybody at the top.

?!

[BBMmk2]

It's from John of Gaunt via the wrong side of the blanket I think (we seem to have had a lot of those sort of blankets in our family as well)

To get back OT, does anyone have a recommendation for a good, truthful, and accurate, biography of Thomas Cromwell?

Erm Anna, the right side of the blanket!! :)

[Nick Armstrong]

?!

[Richard Tarleton]

To get back OT, does anyone have a recommendation for a good, truthful, and accurate, biography of Thomas Cromwell?

The new biog by Tracy Borman looks promising, Anna - haven't read it but good pedigree and reviews.

Yes they're all related one way or another - Henry Vll (Tudor)'s mother was a great grandaughter of John of Gaunt....they can all get back to William the Conq. The clean break comes with Victoria, the present lot probably have less claim than BBM, but that's another story

[jean]

The leading authority on Cromwell and Tudor government when I was an undergrad in the late 60s was Geoffrey Elton...

and here http://www.academia.edu/2307733/A_Tu...is_Discontents - he changed the view of Cromwell from that point of view.

I wouldn't trust anyone who could write The historical significance of the reign of Henry VIII (1509-1547) cannot be understated.

[french frank]

I wouldn't trust anyone who could write The historical significance of the reign of Henry VIII (1509-1547) cannot be understated.

I don't think Elton wrote that!

[jean]

No, but somebody did, and that somebody is the person I wouldn't trust.

It's not clear from the link who it is.