This is interesting (sent to me by someone who has worked on these projects in South America as well as the UK)
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The comments are also interesting too.
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Indeed they areOriginally posted by Old Grumpy View Post
Its interesting that the article is actually written by a real musicologist
Geoffrey Baker is a Reader in the Music Department at Royal Holloway, University of London. His books include Imposing Harmony: Music and Society in Colonial Cuzco (2008), which won the American Musicological Society's Robert Stevenson Award, and Buena Vista in the Club: Rap, Reggaetón, and Revolution in Havana (2011). He has also created a series of ethnographic films about childhood music learning in Cuba and Venezuela.Comment
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Sadly i'm unable to attend this event
but it promises to be very interesting indeed
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Some more interesting things about this (not had a chance to read it yet)Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
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From the sheer amount of articles about the Venezuelan project on his website, it seems clear that Dr Geoff Baker of Royal Holloway College, Egham has decided to make it his "thing". He has conducted research over seven years in Latin America. He has also visited modest Sistema style projects in the UK which look on balance to be applauded although he appears to complain that he isn't invited as much as he would like. There is a bit of ongoing argy-bargy too with Nicola Sturgeon. What is the broader framework? There is an article or two on roots music in Mali on his site where small-scale organisation has been welcomed but Mali does not seem to be his principal concern. And there are two articles by "music journalist" Igor Toronyi-Lalic on Sistema which are especially noted as significant. That is to say they are what got the criticism up and running. Toronyi-Lalic is in fact the "Culture House" editor of the right wing Spectator. Some of the criticisms - the huge expense of running orchestras, severe management, alleged personal abuses and preference given to the middle classes - all such things are part and parcel of any western outfit. What no doubt adds to the misery is inadequate or no state funding. Ironically, those who criticise state funding in Venezuela are not natural bedfellows of the sorts who would want more funding here. Still, pique on the academic fringes about a popular, joyous and successful enterprise from a country that some would view as being by rights comparatively irrelevant can easily be vented by asking difficult political questions. To what extent is the project political? To what extent is it political "propaganda"? Why are you suggesting, Dudamel or whoever, that the Simon Bolivar Orchestra can and should be viewed mainly in musical terms rather than being the political statement that is intended? Why isn't it wholly as purported even though you refuse to purport anything of a political nature at all?Originally posted by MrGongGong View Post
Frankly, if anyone is going to take such a soulless stance, then they might as well turn their negativity on the Bolshoi. Reduce that to merely being propaganda for President Putin. Or walk out of the Royal Albert Hall like a latter day Heseltine or Nott flouncing out of Channel 4 News as soon as anyone who emanates from Israel plays a note. As with the fox hunter on "A Point of View", the instinct is to bash the weak. As I have indicated before, Venezuela may have mineral resources but it is tiny as countries go even to the extent that it in regional terms is hopeless at football. Furthermore, it is not so much to highlight failings there which are in truth endemic in powerful nations that should know better but to seek to suggest that they are principally there and not in "our western civilisation". Well, I guess everyone has to make a living. But the easiest thing in the world is to write a book that appears to be academically meaningful - that in itself can be something of a contradiction - suggesting that the mainly good is also bad or that the unequivocally bad just never happened. The approach is similar to that of Holocaust denial with any facts selected to suit the controversy and hence "sell". It can come from any part of the political spectrum - "Stalin was a Godlike Genius";"The Dark Side of Motherhood and Apple Pie". Either one kowtows to sad and cynical isolated egos or responds to the sheer vibrancy in a collective performance with or without overt reference to its concept. The decision will depend on the extent to which you genuinely enjoy music and any sense of the small guys achieving.Last edited by Lat-Literal; 15-12-15, 23:37.Comment
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I think what is interesting in the UK is that Geoff Baker has started to apply critical thought to these things. Many people have embraced this "method" as some kind of wonderful new discovery (it's NOT) and it's disciples get very irritated (witness the response to his book) when anyone dares to criticise anything around it.
The Systema modelled projects in the UK do have some great things about them but need to be subject to the same kind of critical investigation that one would expect of anything else.Comment
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I wouldn't wish to censor him but I do think that any critique would be best advised to focus on elements that are not prevalent in other music models. While it has been regarded as leftist given the Chavez connection, support is from across the political spectrum. It has since 1975 had the endorsement of centre-right governments, in 2009 founder Abreu won a Ted prize and there is even an extensive El Sistema USA. By 2015, according to official figures, Sistema consisted of over 400 music centres and 700,000 young musicians. The program provides free musical training and rehearsal each week. It is known for rescuing young people in extremely impoverished circumstances from the environment of drug abuse and crime into which they would very likely otherwise be drawn. Dudamel is on record as saying it saved his life. If there are precedents, these should ideally be identified.Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostLast edited by Lat-Literal; 17-12-15, 00:20.Comment
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Indeed there is much to admire and i'm no expert on anything to do with Venezuela
BUT, I do think there are some 'iffy' things going on when folks try and transplant a local solution to other countries as is happening with this.
Politics aside there is very little new or revolutionary about these projects (in the UK) and they are having a detrimental effect on music provision in areas NOT served by them (which is NOT to say that young people shouldn't do more music at all).Comment
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OK. Having been involved in the Croydon Schools Music Festival in 1974 - ie Arthur Davison, being aware of the slightly earlier work by Bedford, and even thinking back to "Hiawatha" in what - the 1930s/40s? - I am aware of programmes of broader participation, some more funded than others. But I am not aware of any precedents on this scale.Originally posted by MrGongGong View PostLast edited by Lat-Literal; 17-12-15, 00:21.Comment
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