Don't Stop the Music - Channel 4

[MrGongGong]

Wasn't the point that there isn't music in ALL primary schools, that their teachers are frequently not able to communicate it if there is, and that only some children are having the chance of even a rudimentary musical education?

There HAS to be "Music" in all primary schools
There are some academies and the like without music (part of the wonderful new world of education we live in )
BUT it's a compulsory subject in Primary school


Whether it's done well or badly is another thing all together

Well, Mr GG, that's as neat and skilful a way of avoiding the programme's issues as I've seen so far.

How come ?
We were told they had NO money for music (which I can believe) then we see children with new instruments ? (doing something dull unfortunately)

I thought (what i've seen so far) it was an engaging piece of TV BUT with some rather glaring mistakes (which others involved in music education have also pointed out in other places).

I'm always very suspicious of TV (and radio for that matter)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Wasn't the point that there isn't music in ALL primary schools, that their teachers are frequently not able to communicate it if there is, and that only some children are having the chance of even a rudimentary musical education?

The state of music in primary has become much, much worse as a result of Wider Opportunities - formulaic teaching of whole classes on unsuitable musical instruments, just to tick a box to say that "all pupils have the opportunity to learn a musical instrument".

WRONG. You can only learn a musical instrument if you can take it home to practise. A weekly lesson in a group so large is never going to achieve much, if anything.

The effect of music services doing what they don't really want to do has been the deskilling of primary school teachers, many of whom have lost the confidence to teach music themselves.

I've been on both sides - classroom teacher for for 23 years and music service teacher for 18 years.

[MrGongGong]

The state of music in primary has become much, much worse as a result of Wider Opportunities - formulaic teaching of whole classes on unsuitable musical instruments, just to tick a box to say that "all pupils have the opportunity to learn a musical instrument".

WRONG. You can only learn a musical instrument if you can take it home to practise. A weekly lesson in a group so large is never going to achieve much, if anything.

Absolutely
Which is odd in some ways because this is the SAME methodology used by the much lauded (and impossible to criticise) "Sistema" projects ?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I watched the programme to the end today. It left many questions unanswered.
The instrument amnesty ("any condition") is fraught with difficulties. Better that an instrument be used than not, but this is likely re reinforce the idea that a rickety instrument is "suitable for a beginner". At a push, a professional might be able to get something out of an instrument in poor condition, but a beginner - never.
Also, his Wider Opps style teaching, albeit with a bit of help, is unlikely to get them far.
The head teacher was rather unsupportive, but the noise issue is more of a problem within the music class itself. I've had to deal with not disturbing other classes and this can normally be accommodated by a little give and take.

What I did like was his unashamed presentation of classical music, and the positive effect it had on the class.

I look forward to future programmes.

[french frank]

From the opening sequences one would imagine that somehow Orchestras NEVER ever go to do performances and things in schools ? which is very odd as it was nice to see some of the Southbank Sinfonia who I have worked with in schools on music projects ???

But, if anyone was likely to be aware of such visits, it would be someone like you - closely involved in that very field. If it happens, you'll know. But does it happen very often, given the number of schools up and down the country?

BUT the solution to the problem is NOT to simply give instruments to children what they need,IMV, are equally dynamic and committed people to work with them.

Again, you probably know them all.

[MrGongGong]

But, if anyone was likely to be aware of such visits, it would be someone like you - closely involved in that very field. If it happens, you'll know. But does it happen very often, given the number of schools up and down the country?
.

I think these things don't happen as much as one would want.
But (and I obviously DO know about them) one of the things that we do really well in the UK is the kinds of projects involving orchestras working with schools and young people. Many of the leaders of our musical institutions (Gillian Moore, Andrew Burke for example) have come from this area of work.

I think the ABO did a survey of projects etc a couple of years ago.

BUT, what is most important is that projects involving orchestras / composers / players working in schools work best and have the most impact whe they take place in environments where there is a culture of music being part of what happens already.

[french frank]

I think these things don't happen as much as one would want.
But (and I obviously DO know about them) one of the things that we do really well in the UK is the kinds of projects involving orchestras working with schools and young people.

And what is needed is a national scheme, not one sponsored by AN orchestra, AN authority, A school. The BBC Ten Pieces scheme moves towards addressing that (but in a tiny way).

BUT, what is most important is that projects involving orchestras / composers / players working in schools work best and have the most impact whe they take place in environments where there is a culture of music being part of what happens already.

And insofar as those environments are in the schools themselves ... ?

[MrGongGong]

And what is needed is a national scheme, not one sponsored by AN orchestra, AN authority, A school. The BBC Ten Pieces scheme moves towards addressing that (but in a tiny way).

Humm

I'm not sure that we need a "one size" scheme at all
BUT a greater diversity and more activity

And insofar as those environments are in the schools themselves ... ?

Some schools have wonderful and receptive music cultures. More of this please, BUT the NPME doesn't encourage this at all IMV.

A few years ago I was at a consultation in Ireland about how the arts could be encouraged in educational contexts. One thing that came up was how could organisations encourage the "best" artists to do this work? What often happens is people (Max ?) do wonderful work in the field then become "successful" so end up not doing this anymore.

[french frank]

Humm

I'm not sure that we need a "one size" scheme at all
BUT a greater diversity and more activity

That's just the trade-off between not having it happen at all in MOST places, and having everyone gaining some benefit. Nationally sponsored schemes don't have to end up as 'one size fits all' if they are managed locally.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And what is needed is a national scheme..

We do have a theoretical national scheme, but, as MrGG says, it's woefully inadequate, simplistic and deliberately starved of the funds it requires.

Full marks to Channel 4 for giving this subject such generous airtime.

[Old Grumpy]

Great discussion - I haven't had a chance to watch the programme yet, but I will.

OG

[Dave2002]

We DO need more music in schools, more instruments (INCLUDING ones made out of scrap !) and more exposure to a wide breadth of musics.

more later methinks ...

Some rubbish music here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20863789

[pastoralguy]

Some rubbish music here - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-20863789

Well ok, but surely we, as a first world country, should be able to serve our children a wee bit better than that?

[MrGongGong]

Well ok, but surely we, as a first world country, should be able to serve our children a wee bit better than that?

We can
We can apparently (if this programme is to believed) buy Djembe drums like this

http://www.mesdirect.com/Product.aspx?cref=TTSPR822171&rid=56&cid=11

on a budget of £0

I was planning on asking the head of that school to help me with my accounts as I could do with a few Neumann microphones and have a budget of £0 as well


So having watched all of it now
I admire his enthusiasm
BUT it's so flawed on so many levels

Someone I know who is involved in funding school music pointed out to me today that the school can't have no budget for music it's a statutory subject, they HAVE to teach it. Getting a group of parents to take legal advice about why their children's school isn't teaching something that it has to by law might be a good plan ? I think the head needs a bit of a kick MUSIC MAKES A NOISE GET OVER IT.

I looked up the schools OFSTED report it doesn't even mention music, surely this should be brought up ?

[MrGongGong]

http://primarymusicmatters.blogspot.co.uk/2014/09/dont-stop-music-starting-on-wrong-note.html