The LAPO and 'crossover'

[Guest]

Seems like film music is the very poor relation when it comes to critics and some audiences today. Here's an article about Joshua Bell engaged in a performance of film music recently with the splendid LAPO:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/arts/la-et-cm-joshua-bell-hollywood-bowl-review-20140710-column.html

[Barbirollians]

Not surprised sounds like a ghastly programme .

[richardfinegold]

The summer programming of American Orchestras has swung greatly towards crosover in recent years. Here in Chicago the Ravinia Festival, the CSO Summer Home, we used to have about 30 classical concerts a summer to choose from. Now it's about 4. It would seem from this article that the LAPO is following suit, and using their proximity to Tinseltown as a theme for the crossover.
I don't necessarily mind some film music in programming. What I find objectionable is the abandonment of serious music altogether.

[Krystal]

Yes, that abandonment issue is real. But one would hope that audiences going to hear film music with the LAPO might later return for the more mainstream art music programs. And some film music composers, like Bernard Herrmann, also wrote art music and were fine composers in their own right. Herrmann's scores for two films, "Fahrenheit 451" and "Taxi Driver" have been made into 'suites' so that they can be accommodated in fine music concerts.

We are, in any case, witnessing the slow death of art music concerts in the western world but there is hope - the Asians love it and the Chinese and Japanese audiences for it are phenomenal.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Before we chuck the first handfuls of soil onto the coffin of "serious Music"/"art Music concerts", I think it might be helpful if we listen to its protests of "I'm not dead yet". First, as the final paragraph of the article reminds us, there were more empty seats for this ghastly event than there were for the Mahler and Beethoven opening concerts of the previous two years - this is, I think, cause for some celebration. Secondly, if it is true that concerts of Music by large symphony orchestras are losing audiences (I don't know that, but it has been spoken about so frequently that I presume it must have some basis in fact) then this is not the case for concerts of chamber Music or Piano/Lieder recitals. Music clubs throughout Britain annually put on events that maintain audiences large enough regularly to fill the venues in which they are held - from my own (limited) experience, there has been no decrease in attendance from the numbers who go to these concerts from those I first went to in the mid-'70s. The age group remains roughly the same (mostly middle-aged to elderly) but this just demonstrates that such Music is something that people fall in love with later in life.

If audiences are rejecting crossover in favour of Mahler and Beethoven, and Rimsky's Scheherezade in favour of the Archduke Trio, then that's a sign to me that audience tastes are getting healthier - not dying a slow death. Unscrew that coffin - it's alive!

[Dave2002]

If audiences are rejecting crossover in favour of Mahler and Beethoven, and Rimsky's Scheherezade in favour of the Archduke Trio, then that's a sign to me that audience tastes are getting healthier - not dying a slow death. Unscrew that coffin - it's alive!

Maybe, but I'd still love to hear Scheherezade once played by a full symphony orchestra.

[clive heath]

Prom 49, 23rd August 2014, Oramo, BBCSO, with Ravel "Mother Goose" ballet, Symanovsky "Songs of a Fairy Princess" and a UK premiere of something by Tiensuu .

[Krystal]

Before we chuck the first handfuls of soil onto the coffin of "serious Music"/"art Music concerts", I think it might be helpful if we listen to its protests of "I'm not dead yet". First, as the final paragraph of the article reminds us, there were more empty seats for this ghastly event than there were for the Mahler and Beethoven opening concerts of the previous two years - this is, I think, cause for some celebration. Secondly, if it is true that concerts of Music by large symphony orchestras are losing audiences (I don't know that, but it has been spoken about so frequently that I presume it must have some basis in fact) then this is not the case for concerts of chamber Music or Piano/Lieder recitals. Music clubs throughout Britain annually put on events that maintain audiences large enough regularly to fill the venues in which they are held - from my own (limited) experience, there has been no decrease in attendance from the numbers who go to these concerts from those I first went to in the mid-'70s. The age group remains roughly the same (mostly middle-aged to elderly) but this just demonstrates that such Music is something that people fall in love with later in life.

If audiences are rejecting crossover in favour of Mahler and Beethoven, and Rimsky's Scheherezade in favour of the Archduke Trio, then that's a sign to me that audience tastes are getting healthier - not dying a slow death. Unscrew that coffin - it's alive!

I don't agree that film music concerts are 'ghastly'. Also, the demographic for concerts and recitals is unquestionably getting older!! There's obviously a "use-by date" with this unless younger people can be found to fill seats in greater numbers. I lived in Vienna for an extended period and the average age at ALL concerts was between 50 and 60 years of age, with quite a few people in the 40's age-group, very few in the 30's and precious few beyond that. I did see families are few times who had brought their children - and noticed how seldom this happened.

As to whether people come to art music later as a result of 'falling in love' later in life - I suspect that the demographic has simply aged and has loved the music and it's a movable feast. Then there's a little matter of the price of tickets. It cost me, on average, 110 Euros for a decent seat in the Musikverein for each individual concert. Same for the Theater an der Wien, Konzerthaus and Staatsoper (actually, that was far more expensive). I met a young fellow at the opera - he was about 28 - and he spoke enthusiastically (with a heavy Austro-German accent) about having 'a nice little job' which helped him fulfill his need for music (mostly opera) in Austria and Germany for much of the year. We talked on the U-Bahn going home and it was lovely to realize the extent of his passion. But he was one of a tiny tiny proportion of the 'under 30' age group.

I remain pessimistic.

[french frank]

But one would hope that audiences going to hear film music with the LAPO might later return for the more mainstream art music programs.

I'd love to see some hard evidence beyond the odd anecdote. It is, after all, the thinking behind Radio 3's simplified programming. And even the official (if seldom stated) 'excuse' for Late Junction &c. If they're listening to that on Radio 3, they may hear some of the other 'treats' that are broadcast ...

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I don't agree that film music concerts are 'ghastly'.

Nor do I - I don't know who has said this. There was very little Film Music in "this ghastly event" (as I called it) - Waxman's Sunset Boulevard (hurrah!) was coupled with an excerpt from Lord Voldemort's stage "musical" with the same name.

Also, the demographic for concerts and recitals is unquestionably getting older!! There's obviously a "use-by date" with this unless younger people can be found to fill seats in greater numbers. I lived in Vienna for an extended period and the average age at ALL concerts was between 50 and 60 years of age, with quite a few people in the 40's age-group, very few in the 30's and precious few beyond that.

"Unquestionably" - "obviously": signal words (especially when lacking evidence to support them) that something is being taken for granted and not being "questioned". "Classical" Art Music concerts of Music from the Western Classical Traditions have always had a predominantly middle-aged to elderly audience. 'Twas ever thus - when I started going to concerts at the age of 14, there were very few people of my age there - I was treated as a (very welcome) novelty. It's the same now, forty years on when I go to concerts in Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Ilkley, Skipton. In fact, in Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield, there are considerably more late teenagers and people in their twenties attending than was the case in Blackburn, because of the Student population. These concerts have never had huge numbers of audiences in their twenties and thirties: the core has always been older people. When they die, other older (than forty) people replace them - always have, always will.

And the Hallé's Family Concerts in Manchester are so popular, by the way, that they have to programme them twice to meet demand. Don't judge the state of this Music by the philistine standards of Vienna.

[Krystal]

Yes, that's what the Viennese are - philistines; they're known for it.

And now I think that's enough messageboarding from me. Ciao!!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And now I think that's enough messageboarding from me. Ciao!!

Well, I for one am very sorry to hear this - I have generally enjoyed your contributions and I hope that you reconsider. If not, then I trust you find another, perhaps more agreeable to you, site to share your opinions.

As for the philistinism of the Viennese - well, just ask Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern, Berg ...

[Serial_Apologist]

As for the philistinism of the Viennese - well, just ask Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert, Bruckner, Mahler, Schönberg, Webern, Berg ...

But that amounts to more than three beats in a bar...

[MrGongGong]

"Unquestionably" - "obviously": signal words (especially when lacking evidence to support them) that something is being taken for granted and not being "questioned". "Classical" Art Music concerts of Music from the Western Classical Traditions have always had a predominantly middle-aged to elderly audience. 'Twas ever thus - when I started going to concerts at the age of 14, there were very few people of my age there - I was treated as a (very welcome) novelty. It's the same now, forty years on when I go to concerts in Leeds, Bradford, Huddersfield, Ilkley, Skipton. In fact, in Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield, there are considerably more late teenagers and people in their twenties attending than was the case in Blackburn, because of the Student population. These concerts have never had huge numbers of audiences in their twenties and thirties: the core has always been older people. When they die, other older (than forty) people replace them - always have, always will.

And the Hallé's Family Concerts in Manchester are so popular, by the way, that they have to programme them twice to meet demand. Don't judge the state of this Music by the philistine standards of Vienna.

Surely we can get past the idea that somehow the audience for Classical music is dying out ?
It's NOT

[Krystal]

And the Hallé's Family Concerts in Manchester are so popular, by the way, that they have to programme them twice to meet demand. Don't judge the state of this Music by the philistine standards of Vienna.

It was YOU who used the word "philistine" with regard to the Viennese. And, of course, they don't have half the sophistication of Huddersfield, Leeds or Bradford, more's the pity.

I only came back here to point out to you that major inconsistency; your own use of the word "philistine" in the same sentence as "Vienna". Brave.

Auf wiedersehen.