Imo and Ben, Radio 3 play by Mark Ravenhill, tonight at 8.30

[Mary Chambers]

This looks as if it could be interesting. It concerns Imogen Holst's relationship with Benjamin Britten, with reference to the composing of Gloriana.

Not sure whether this is the right place to post this.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This looks as if it could be interesting. It concerns Imogen Holst's relationship with Benjamin Britten, with reference to the composing of Gloriana.

Not sure whether this is the right place to post this.

It seems to be exactly the right place. And thank you for the nudge.

[Serial_Apologist]

It seems to be exactly the right place. And thank you for the nudge.

Strongly seconded.

[ardcarp]

I heard the play in the car driving home. I enjoyed it very much...but couldn't help worrying all the time about the percentage of known fact versus artistic conjecture. Mark Ravenhill must have researched the subject extensively, and his mission, after all, was to construct a piece of theatre. Britten's often petulant nature was portrayed very well, I thought. It took a while to accept the actor's voice as Britten's voice because I can remember all too well how it sounded. Look forward to hearing from Mary C. about the play.

[Mary Chambers]

I think I reacted in much the same way, certainly about the voice! I wasn't too sure about the acting of either of the main parts. I had to keep reminding myself that this was a play rather than a documentary, and not get too worked up about accuracy - but my pedantic academic side makes that very difficult, and I did spend quite a bit of time thinking "Well, that's wrong!". On the whole I enjoyed it, but I feel Britten's petulant side, which certainly existed, was over-emphasised. Imogen Holst's diaries sometimes mention his calmness, though I suspect this was mostly surface.

Public and press's resentment of the cost was something I had not much considered. I wonder how true that was? I remember the Coronation and the advance publicity about Gloriana (my mother was interested in music), and there seemed to be nothing but rejoicing - but I was only 13, and perhaps I moved in the wrong circles for resentment about arts funding.

[Sir Velo]

I heard the play in the car driving home. I enjoyed it very much...but couldn't help worrying all the time about the percentage of known fact versus artistic conjecture.

I happen to agree with you, ardcarp, although I can think of at least one forum member who wouldn't. You, Mary, and others know sufficient about Britten to know how much licence has been taken; but there will be many who will listen to drama docs like this and think that it is an accurate representation of a real life incident. Far better to call the characters Rachel and Stephen and then there would be no question of what is "real", but then I suppose that wouldn't get the punters.

[MrGongGong]

I didn't hear it
BUT
I thought it was a PLAY ?
NOT a documentary

Can anyone think of a fictional representation (or even a "documentary" one ?) of a character that you know is "accurate" ?

That's What drama is for ......... is a fiction

Fourth wall and all of that stuff

[Mary Chambers]

I think we all know that, Mr GG, and I rather enjoy fictional depictions of people I'm interested in - in fact I wouldn't mind writing one if only I had the talent. It's just a bit difficult to switch off one's pedantic side when it's as close to documentary as this play was.

[MrGongGong]

I think we all know that.

I think that many people have no idea at all
Theatre is everywhere , it's the mainstay of the media

[Sir Velo]

I think that many people have no idea at all
Theatre is everywhere , it's the mainstay of the media

Which is why it's disingenuous to use names of "real" people when dramatising a work of fiction.

If a writer has something to say about relationships between creative people then they shouldn't need to rely on using the peg of "Ben/Imo" to hang it on. No one can know what went on in that dynamic unless they were there. If the work is strong it will stand up on its own.

[ardcarp]

Perhaps we're all being a bit literal-minded here. The historical novel, for instance (one of my favourite literary forms) makes use of real characters and what is known about them but embeds them in a fictioanl scenario which nevertheless aims to be possible. The snag is, Britten is still in living memory, so those of us who remember him, and especially those who are Britten experts will inevitably find a dramatisation difficult to swallow.

But the playwright presumably had a commission to write a piece for Britten's 100th, and he chose an interesting relationship (with slightly unorthodox daughter of another British composer) to base it upon.

A question for the knowledgeable...was Britten's piano at The Red House really such a ghastly old honky-tonk? Given that he was a fine pianist, he surely had something better to practise on? I winced a lot.

[Mary Chambers]

Quite a bit of Ravenhill's play was taken from Imogen Holst's diaries, which reported conversations and events in some detail. This made it seem rather like a documentary to me. I found it a slightly uneasy combination of fact and fiction.

[Mary Chambers]

A question for the knowledgeable...was Britten's piano at The Red House really such a ghastly old honky-tonk? Given that he was a fine pianist, he surely had something better to practise on? I winced a lot.

I don't know if this is aimed at me, but I'm not an expert, just an enthusiast. I doubt very much if his piano was as bad as that! After Peter Grimes he was quite well off, and a good piano would have been a priority. Incidentally, at this time he didn't live in The Red House, but at 4 Crabbe Street on the sea front. He and Pears lived there for ten years before moving to The Red House in 1957.

The pedant in me has just checked some photos I have of the interior of the Crabbe Street house. The house apparently contained three pianos, two in the drawing room and one in Britten's studio. The two I can see are small grands, but I can't see the make. These photos are in the March 1952 issue of The Ladies' Journal - how the nature of celebrity has changed! I think I bought it on eBay.

[MrGongGong]

Which is why it's disingenuous to use names of "real" people when dramatising a work of fiction.

So I guess the RSC will be putting on some plays next season
including

"The Unnamed Scottish King"
"A famous Roman"
"Blue Cheese King"


and so on ?

[ardcarp]

Going back to Britten's out-of-tune piano (and thanks, Mary, for your info on his address and his pianos!) I wonder if there is a single reference, maybe in IH's writings, to a studio piano being thus? If not, it was a strange and perhaps unnecessary construct for the playwright to have used.