The Evolution of Language

[gurnemanz]

There's more general examples of this. 'Third' is simply a version of 'thrid' (formed from three) that caught on and eventually replaced the original. At one time there were also 'oneth' and 'twoeth'.

and the three Yorkshire Ridings were originally thriddings.

[LeMartinPecheur]

and the three Yorkshire Ridings were originally thriddings.

Presumably it was the norththridding that caused the 'false division'?

...plus maybe the souththridding...

[ardcarp]

The thread has rather focused on delving into (what might loosely be called) Medieval usages. The Evolution of Language is happening all the time though. Pedants (including me) may rage against buzz-words and against fashionable grammatical practices such as using nouns as verbs (accessing) or pluralising (outcomes, challenges, musics), but many of these will be perfectly normal currency in the not-too-distant future (or should I say going forward?)

The process is only too evident to those who try to keep abreast of a foreign language. Everyday spoken French (despite the best efforts of l'Academie Francaise) is different from the stuff we learned at school, and those who struggle to keep branche (sorry, can't do accents) find that brache is no longer cool. OMG is cool still cool?

So we are swept along in an unstoppable rushing river, and fighting against the current is useless.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Presumably it was the norththridding that caused the 'false division'?

...plus maybe the souththridding...

There's only one thridding now: the East...

[Simon]

No time to do this in depth, but as I said elsewhere, thanks for all the scholarship and interesting posts - and the thread itself.

I have a mid-C20 book somewhere, by one of the old experts on words. Went back and back and had a stab at the original word for horse. I mean, the very first word anybody ever used as a descriptor. he admitted it was a long shot, but the logic was fascinating. I'll try to look it out when I'm back.

And so to bed...

[Pabmusic]

...I have a mid-C20 book somewhere, by one of the old experts on words. Went back and back and had a stab at the original word for horse. I mean, the very first word anybody ever used as a descriptor. he admitted it was a long shot, but the logic was fascinating...

This is a fascinating area of linguistics. There are those who are actively engaged in constructing a language tree that points up the connexions between different language groups. There has certainly been much work done on the Indo-European proto-language (I recall for instance that 'ball' seems to be of a very ancient root indeed, having an equivalent sound and meaning in so many ancient Indo-European languages, including Sanskrit).

[gurnemanz]

No time to do this in depth, but as I said elsewhere, thanks for all the scholarship and interesting posts - and the thread itself.

I have a mid-C20 book somewhere, by one of the old experts on words. Went back and back and had a stab at the original word for horse. I mean, the very first word anybody ever used as a descriptor. he admitted it was a long shot, but the logic was fascinating. I'll try to look it out when I'm back.

And so to bed...

"Horse" is also an example of metathesis like third/third. The Germanic root is "hros". In English it switched letters to become "horse" but is still found in place names such as Rosthwaite in the Lake District (horse clearing) In German it lost the initial h to become Roß (new spelling Ross) but came to be used mainly poetically (eg by Richard Wagner), like "steed" in English. In normal German it gave way to "Pferd".

[Pabmusic]

"Horse" is also an example of metathesis like third/third. The Germanic root is "hros". In English it switched letters to become "horse" but is still found in place names such as Rosthwaite in the Lake District (horse clearing) In German it lost the initial h to become Roß (new spelling Ross) but came to be used mainly poetically (eg by Richard Wagner), like "steed" in English. In normal German it gave way to "Pferd".

Wonderful.

[french frank]

In German it lost the initial h to become Roß (new spelling Ross) but came to be used mainly poetically (eg by Richard Wagner), like "steed" in English. In normal German it gave way to "Pferd".

And next lesson, in Romance linguistics, how 'equus' became 'cheval' . According to phonological rules, it can almost be done! I used to know how, by metatheses, reduplications, diminutive formations &c.

Helpful consonant changes between Greek and Latin [and cf Welsh, where Welsh seems often to follow the Greek and Irish the Latin (see 'P' and 'Q' Celts)]. All very fascinating, with many language realationships still obscure.

[ardcarp]

Talking of horses, wasn't the word 'polo' the breakthrough in deciphering some Middle-Eastern script? I'm hazy about the details, so if someone knows about it, I'd be interested to hear. Or I might be talking gibberish (as usual).

[vinteuil]

And next lesson, in Romance linguistics, how 'equus' became 'cheval' . According to phonological rules, it can almost be done! I used to know how, by metatheses, reduplications, diminutive formations &c.
.

... but since classical Latin had, in addition to equus ( a horse), the word caballus ( a work horse, a hack, a nag) - surely it is more likely that cheval is derived from the latter??

[amateur51]

... but since classical Latin had, in addition to equus ( a horse), the word caballus ( a work horse, a hack, a nag) - surely it is more likely that cheval is derived from the latter??

'Ceffyl' in Welsh, which tends to support you, vints

[Serial_Apologist]

... but since classical Latin had, in addition to equus ( a horse), the word caballus ( a work horse, a hack, a nag) - surely it is more likely that cheval is derived from the latter??

Caballo/caballero - Sp.

[french frank]

... but since classical Latin had, in addition to equus ( a horse), the word caballus ( a work horse, a hack, a nag) - surely it is more likely that cheval is derived from the latter??

Well spotted, M. Vinteuil. The difference being that 'caballus' was the Vulgar Latin word (no jokes, please) - the vocab that was spoken rather than written - and therefore the vocab that the Roman soldiery carried through the empire and which formed the basis for the Romance languages. Classical Latin was the language written by the educated nobs for their poetry, history and similar posh things.

Ceffyl, like fenestr &c., came into Welsh via the Norman French invaders, which explains how a word of Latin origin crops up in a Celtic language.

[gurnemanz]

Philip (Greek, philos hippos = horse lover) would no doubt enjoy an equestrian event or cavalcade at the hippodrome.