Not on Radio 3 - Bloomsday

[aeolium]

It absolutely is because Radio 4 has its schedule and it won't drop regular programming to make way for extra - serious - arts programmes or regular full length drama. There will just be, overall, less of it.

But all the evidence is that R3 does not drop regular programming to make way for extra, serious, arts programmes or regular full length drama (apart from its normal drama slots) and has not done for some time now. It does sometimes rejig its schedules for special music events, e.g. total immersions though it's questionable how serious the 'thons' really are, but when was the last occasion on which R3 did something like that for the spoken arts?

I'm with am51 - if R3 isn't going to do it (and it isn't) and R4 is prepared to do it, albeit occasionally, then something is better than nothing.

[Lateralthinking1]

But all the evidence is that R3 does not drop regular programming to make way for extra, serious, arts programmes or regular full length drama (apart from its normal drama slots) and has not done for some time now. It does sometimes rejig its schedules for special music events, e.g. total immersions though it's questionable how serious the 'thons' really are, but when was the last occasion on which R3 did something like that for the spoken arts?

I'm with am51 - if R3 isn't going to do it (and it isn't) and R4 is prepared to do it, albeit occasionally, then something is better than nothing.

Which leads us on nicely to the fact that 7 February 2012 was the bicentenary of Charles Dickens's birth. Some forum members might recall him. In 2002, he came fourth in the BBC Great Britons poll, one place below Princess Diana and one above a guy called Shakespeare. What did R3 or R4 do to mark the occasion?

I wonder whether the BBC managers' submission to the licence consultation had anything to say about being controversial. That idea about controversy being needed in order to capture the imaginations of a wider audience.....well it is one of the unspoken givens. The Molly Bloom speech is controversial for elements of a R4 audience but not for most listeners to R3.

The play earlier this season on R3 by Alice Nutter had a fair amount of robust language too but that wasn't the controversial aspect of it. The content included a significant section on the 1980s rave scene. Being of little interest to many lovers of, say, Charpentier, that enabled it to tick all the "controversial as possible" boxes. What it did for the listening figures I don't know.

[Russ]

Radio 4 'set to refocus on arts and culture, says Controller'

Sounds like good news:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/may/31/radio-4-refocus-arts-culture

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/radio4/2012/05/bloomsday_and_cultural_program.html

Russ

[Russ]

Sorry. The substance of this thread has already been introduced in a earlier one.

Russ

[DracoM]

JG Ballard - excellent. Radio will / could do him much better justice than TV.

[Lateralthinking1]

Thank you Russ for this information.

I see that there is no comment from Roger Wright yet.

[french frank]

Sounds like good news:

Except that there's no mention at all about what is planned for 'the cultural network'. This explains why Radio 3's budget has been pared away - it won't need as much money when it's not producing high quality speech programmes. What do we get instead?

[french frank]

But all the evidence is that R3 does not drop regular programming to make way for extra, serious, arts programmes or regular full length drama (apart from its normal drama slots) and has not done for some time now. It does sometimes rejig its schedules for special music events, e.g. total immersions though it's questionable how serious the 'thons' really are, but when was the last occasion on which R3 did something like that for the spoken arts?

I'm with am51 - if R3 isn't going to do it (and it isn't) and R4 is prepared to do it, albeit occasionally, then something is better than nothing.

I think that leaves a lot of holes in the reasoning.

Radio 3 doesn't have to 'give up regular programming' for arts programmes because, such as remains, is regular. There just isn't much of it. My point was that if Radio 3 drops it all completely - and that has been the way things have been going - Radio 4 won't fully make up for what has been lost. And Radio 4 won't be free to do the out-of-the way stuff that Radio 3 is free to do.

I've been arguing that Radio 3 should do such programming better than it does - not that it should drop it completely so that Radio 4 can provide mass audience substitutes.

I'm with am51 - if R3 isn't going to do it (and it isn't) and R4 is prepared to do it, albeit occasionally, then something is better than nothing.

I'm glad you're happy with that. In the long run I think the nation's arts provision on radio will be weakened - just as the classical music is being weakened.

We've already seen how with dash of a pen Radio 3's service licence can be altered to drop what isn't convenient any more. A lot of people will be very pleased if Radio 3 is relaunched as a wide-ranging 'all kinds of music except pop' and, again, it will be the classical music audience that will lose out.

(Signed)

Cassandra

[amateur51]

I think that leaves a lot of holes in the reasoning.

Radio 3 doesn't have to 'give up regular programming' for arts programmes because, such as remains, is regular. There just isn't much of it. My point was that if Radio 3 drops it all completely - and that has been the way things have been going - Radio 4 won't fully make up for what has been lost. And Radio 4 won't be free to do the out-of-the way stuff that Radio 3 is free to do.

I've been arguing that Radio 3 should do such programming better than it does - not that it should drop it completely so that Radio 4 can provide mass audience substitutes.

I'm glad you're happy with that. In the long run I think the nation's arts provision on radio will be weakened - just as the classical music is being weakened.

We've already seen how with dash of a pen Radio 3's service licence can be altered to drop what isn't convenient any more. A lot of people will be very pleased if Radio 3 is relaunched as a wide-ranging 'all kinds of music except pop' and, again, it will be the classical music audience that will lose out.

(Signed)

Cassandra

Where's Liberace when you need him?

http://www.bobsliberace.com/decades/1950s/1950s.11.html

[french frank]

Where's Liberace when you need him?

http://www.bobsliberace.com/decades/1950s/1950s.11.html

Or ...


How about this: Roger Wright will announce his retirement from the Controllership of Radio 3 after 14 years to concentrate on the Proms. A new controller will take over with a brief to develop the music range of Radio 3: jazz, world, folk, light music, music theatre, film music ... for an audience that won't appreciate CotW, Discovering Music, Music Matters (and probably not Hear & Now) and they'll be dropped along with all the arts programmes. Classical music will be represented by the evening concert ...

Any bets?

[amateur51]

Or ...


How about this: Roger Wright will announce his retirement from the Controllership of Radio 3 after 14 years to concentrate on the Proms. A new controller will take over with a brief to develop the music range of Radio 3: jazz, world, folk, light music, music theatre, film music ... for an audience that won't appreciate CotW, Discovering Music, Music Matters (and probably not Hear & Now) and they'll be dropped along with all the arts programmes. Classical music will be represented by the evening concert ...

Any bets?

Step forward new Classic DAB/Internet controller who promises to launch an up-market serious music station with no advertising but as an internet subscription station, headed by DJ Mr Pee

[Frances_iom]

Or ...
How about this: Roger Wright will announce his retirement from the Controllership of Radio 3 after 14 years to concentrate on the Proms. ... Classical music will be represented by the evening concert ...

Any bets?

this has been my thesis for many months - + several posts - R3 as most on this board knew it is dead - short easy listening to break up the chat is what the largest audience wants - bread will become more difficult to provide in future but circuses (60 yrs on throne, Olympics etc) are cheap and keep the masses amused so nothing that provokes thought is to be encouraged.

[french frank]

"There are many conceptions of the functions of broadcasting, some of them narrowly limited. But a public service such as the BBC has to feel that it is covering the whole range of its possibilities, that it is providing for all classes of its listeners, and that it is, among its other functions, presenting the great classical repertoire in music and drama, and "so far as they are broadcastable" in literature, and the other arts.

"To do this within the two services already existing, the regionalised Home Service and the Light Programme, is not possible. Quite apart from the already great pressure upon their time, the basic conceptions of ordinary broadcasting with its news bulletins and other fixed points, its desire in the course of the limited peak listening hours every evening to give some service to every possible taste, restrict to a hampering extent the possibility of devoting the necessary time to the full and frequent performance of great works in their entirety or to the development of those highest forms of music and drama which, while they have a major importance, have, as yet, only a minority audience. The range of the Home Service and the Light Programme is admitted by all who have studied broadcasting programmes throughout the world to be outstanding. But in view of all this, it is not enough.

"The Third Programme will have no fixed points. It will devote to the great works the time they require. It will seek every evening to do something that is culturally satisfying and significant. It will devote occasional series of evenings to some related masterpieces, a Shakespeare historical cycle, all the Beethoven quartets, or a series of Mozart operas. It will, so far as circumstances permit, be international. Concerts, operas, plays will be taken from abroad as landline conditions improve. Its talks will include contributions from the great European thinkers. Its whole content will be directed to an audience that is not of one class but that is perceptive and intelligent.

"In declaring these standards the BBC realises that it is aiming high. It may be giving hostages unto fortune. But it is determined to break this new ground. And it believes that the outcome will prove that of all post-war developments in the field of sound broadcasting the Third Programme has the greatest value both to the individual and to the community as a whole. "

[amateur51]

"There are many conceptions of the functions of broadcasting, some of them narrowly limited. But a public service such as the BBC has to feel that it is covering the whole range of its possibilities, that it is providing for all classes of its listeners, and that it is, among its other functions, presenting the great classical repertoire in music and drama, and "so far as they are broadcastable" in literature, and the other arts.

"To do this within the two services already existing, the regionalised Home Service and the Light Programme, is not possible. Quite apart from the already great pressure upon their time, the basic conceptions of ordinary broadcasting with its news bulletins and other fixed points, its desire in the course of the limited peak listening hours every evening to give some service to every possible taste, restrict to a hampering extent the possibility of devoting the necessary time to the full and frequent performance of great works in their entirety or to the development of those highest forms of music and drama which, while they have a major importance, have, as yet, only a minority audience. The range of the Home Service and the Light Programme is admitted by all who have studied broadcasting programmes throughout the world to be outstanding. But in view of all this, it is not enough.

"The Third Programme will have no fixed points. It will devote to the great works the time they require. It will seek every evening to do something that is culturally satisfying and significant. It will devote occasional series of evenings to some related masterpieces, a Shakespeare historical cycle, all the Beethoven quartets, or a series of Mozart operas. It will, so far as circumstances permit, be international. Concerts, operas, plays will be taken from abroad as landline conditions improve. Its talks will include contributions from the great European thinkers. Its whole content will be directed to an audience that is not of one class but that is perceptive and intelligent.

"In declaring these standards the BBC realises that it is aiming high. It may be giving hostages unto fortune. But it is determined to break this new ground. And it believes that the outcome will prove that of all post-war developments in the field of sound broadcasting the Third Programme has the greatest value both to the individual and to the community as a whole. "

How do I get it?

[Lateralthinking1]

Or ...


How about this: Roger Wright will announce his retirement from the Controllership of Radio 3 after 14 years to concentrate on the Proms. A new controller will take over with a brief to develop the music range of Radio 3: jazz, world, folk, light music, music theatre, film music ... for an audience that won't appreciate CotW, Discovering Music, Music Matters (and probably not Hear & Now) and they'll be dropped along with all the arts programmes. Classical music will be represented by the evening concert ...

Any bets?

Not sure ff. That means "not sure" rather than "I vehemently disagree". Unless RW has an isolationist policy on world music and jazz, recent developments hardly suggest broad commitments to those genres. As someone who ventures into classical music from non-classical perspectives, I am on paper just the kind of listener they want to attract more. However, I would be very much against any absorbing of jazz and world music into daytime programmes on R3. We have seen how folk music has been "absorbed" in that way at the local level. I don't think that is what many people want but then I never listen to Classic FM.

Contrary to some management viewpoints, I often find specialist programmes more accessible. It is bad enough already wading through things I don't like to get to things I do like. Far better to look at the schedules and say "that is the kind of classical music programme I want to listen to"; ditto jazz; and I want the world music programmes to be retained. The latter for opponents means ring fencing so it works well all round. It is helpful to have COTW. This week's interests me. That week's doesn't. The same thing with Building a Library as was the case with Alyn's earlier jazz programme. I also like the fact that there are early music and modern music programmes, not that I would do more than dip in to them myself. What I would really like is one weekly programme of classical music from the romantic era, rather than having to put up with endless Haydn. Has there ever been one?

As for the spoken word, which is the main theme of this part of the forum, I would like to see both more of traditional writers - the classics - and current writers who really have something important to say. That Play for Today idea where the work creates a genuine buzz for capturing something crucially relevant in an original way. One thing I want to tease out from contributors is the level of satisfaction or otherwise in respect of the programmes that aren't plays and aren't "The Verb". I will do that on another thread in due course. My own feeling is that a great deal more could be achieved in the few slots we have.