The Battle of the Brows

[Vox Humana]

Did anyone catch this on Radio 4 yesterday?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dd8y

It is a history of the BBC's attitudes towards culture and, inevitably, The Third Programme and Radio 3 loom large. I was fascinated to hear the short clip of Sir Henry Walford Davies speaking.

[ardcarp]

Yes! Good programme title once you'd fathomed it out.

[french frank]

Did anyone catch this on Radio 4 yesterday?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m001dd8y

It is a history of the BBC's attitudes towards culture and, inevitably, The Third Programme and Radio 3 loom large. I was fascinated to hear the short clip of Sir Henry Walford Davies speaking.

Thanks for mentioning it. Very thought provoking. I've often wondered whether it's the critics of the highbrows/high culture who actually perpetuate the myth that classical music &c is for the elite, just for the few (hence "not for people like me"), and so on. Chi Chi Nwanoku mentioned - can't remember whether it was said to her or to a child she heard of - that black children wouldn't like classical music. I think you'd have to be very unlucky to hear that from a so-called 'high brow'. Much more likely to hear it from someone who didn't know anything about classical music.

[Vox Humana]

I've often wondered whether it's the critics of the highbrows/high culture who actually perpetuate the myth that classical music &c is for the elite, just for the few (hence "not for people like me"), and so on.

Well, I'm quite sure it's not the performers. I have never yet met a musician who wanted their music to be exclusive and the whole idea goes against the grain. Nor can I imagine that it is lovers of classical music either. Wouldn't we all prefer to "spread the love"? When I was young back in the '60s, pop music was taking the western world by storm. A large proportion of my contemporaries took the view that "this is where it's at" and that classical music was fuddy-duddy. But the trend will have started before that, with skiffle. The young always like to have their own identity. I suspect that current attitudes have grown up with that generation, who are now in their 70's and 80s, and have "trickled down" from there.

[smittims]

Well said, vox and frankie. I'll listen to it and post again. This is an old bugbear of mine, and I'm tired of hearing 'celebrities' brought out (e.g. the Radio Times article on the Last Night of the Proms) to demand the breaking down of barriers etc. where no barriers exist . It's odd how Radio 3 is criticised when it broadcasts a wider range of music than anywhere else, especially in recent years when we've had Paloma Faith and Michael Ball, as well as Jazz, Folk and 'World' music, while Radio one never broadcasts 'Wozzeck' or even Haydn , and no-one complains that it has 'barriers'.

[smittims]

Now I've heard it I can comment. I could nit-pick details, but I won't. I was struck, however , by Hensher's stance at the end, sayig there are only two kinds of art, good and bad, apparently unaware that in saying that he was , in fact, categorising and setting a barrier, something he affected to deplore earlier.

I wish they'd explored more the lowering of intellectual standards, the removal of programmes which are intellectually stimulating , like 'The Innocent Ear' , 'Historical Interpretations on Record' and so on. In the '70s BBC Two televised a programme in which Bob Simpson analysed the Rasumovsky Quartets with coloured symbols on the screen, and on Saturday evening 'Renoir's 'Le Regle du Jeu ' and Bergman's 'Face to Face' two of the most 'highbrow' art films ever made, while on Radio 3 Hans Keller gave a two hour lecture on Schoenberg's quartets. The BBc wold never dare do anything like this today.

They weren't expensive to put on and they didn't take up much time; there was still plenty of room for 'How not to Wallpaper' or whatever BBC TV thinks we ought to watch .

[french frank]

Hensher's stance at the end, sayig there are only two kinds of art, good and bad, apparently unaware that in saying that he was , in fact, categorising and setting a barrier, something he affected to deplore earlier.

This is such a cliché. And who is the arbiter? Me, because I am a discerning person and have the knowledge and experience to recognise the difference? Or not me, but someone whose opinions I rate who has the knowledge and experience? And what difference does it make if someone likes something 'bad' and dislikes something 'good'? Or likes something a bit rarefied rather than the very popular?

I wish they'd explored more the lowering of intellectual standards, the removal of programmes which are intellectually stimulating , like 'The Innocent Ear' , 'Historical Interpretations on Record' and so on. In the '70s BBC Two televised a programme in which Bob Simpson analysed the Rasumovsky Quartets with coloured symbols on the screen, and on Saturday evening 'Renoir's 'Le Regle du Jeu ' and Bergman's 'Face to Face' two of the most 'highbrow' art films ever made ...

I would argue that the BBC is largely responsible for erecting any perceived barriers by opting for 'generic broadcasting' in the 1960s. All the 'difficult' stuff is put on Radio 3 and decades later Radio 3 is criticised for being elitist because people have opted for the popular services.

[kindofblue]

Now I've heard it I can comment. I could nit-pick details, but I won't. I was struck, however , by Hensher's stance at the end, sayig there are only two kinds of art, good and bad, apparently unaware that in saying that he was , in fact, categorising and setting a barrier, something he affected to deplore earlier.

I wish they'd explored more the lowering of intellectual standards, the removal of programmes which are intellectually stimulating , like 'The Innocent Ear' , 'Historical Interpretations on Record' and so on. In the '70s BBC Two televised a programme in which Bob Simpson analysed the Rasumovsky Quartets with coloured symbols on the screen, and on Saturday evening 'Renoir's 'Le Regle du Jeu ' and Bergman's 'Face to Face' two of the most 'highbrow' art films ever made, while on Radio 3 Hans Keller gave a two hour lecture on Schoenberg's quartets. The BBc wold never dare do anything like this today.

They weren't expensive to put on and they didn't take up much time; there was still plenty of room for 'How not to Wallpaper' or whatever BBC TV thinks we ought to watch .

Love the idea of a 'How not to wallpaper' programme! More likely at the moment is an hour of a team of 'experts' being sent to the scene of said bad wallpapering, and then repairing the damage. Or perhaps a competition where teams of C-list celebs try and repair bad wallpapering, with the obigatory annoyingly perky, pizzicato soundtrack. I'll get that proposal written...

[Vox Humana]

... with the obigatory annoyingly perky, pizzicato soundtrack. ...

With drums. Don't forget the drums. Gotta have drums!