The value of children's fiction

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30537

    The value of children's fiction



    I can't be convinced of these arguments, albeit presented by an academic of unimpeachable literary reputation. I see children's fiction - whoever reads it - as essentially escapist: this is how things ought to be, how we want them to be. Comfortable and comforting. But:

    'Today, 39% [of children's fiction] is bought for readers over 16, with millennials identified as the biggest adult consumers of children’s fiction.'

    'In 2018, [UK book sales monitor] Nielsen says 24-to-34-year-olds bought for themselves or received 12% of all the children’s fiction purchased, double the 6% recorded in 2014. Readers aged 17 to 24 were, however, the largest group of adults who bought children’s fiction for themselves, accounting for one in every eight purchases, compared to 10% five years ago. In total, a third of all children’s fiction purchased last year was by adults to read themselves.'

    However: 'The Nielsen data also shows adults increasingly want children’s stories read to them: 61% of purchases of children’s audiobooks were for listeners over 16 in 2018, up dramatically from 38% in 2014.'

    But (NB reviewer opinion): 'Now 32, she was among the first cohort of children who grew up reading Harry Potter – “I was 12 when Harry was 12, I adored those books” – and exemplifies how her generation continues to hunger for children’s fiction as adults.'

    What I would like to know is what adult fiction is read by such 'millennials' because I see nothing wrong with reading adult and children's fiction - but to never 'grow into' adult fiction seems to me to be worrying rather than joyful.
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.
  • DracoM
    Host
    • Mar 2007
    • 12995

    #2
    < Comfortable and comforting. >

    WHAT?
    How much 'children's / YA's fiction have you read recently'???

    Try Patrick Ness's 'Chaos Walking' trilogy.
    or
    Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings'?

    Comment

    • french frank
      Administrator/Moderator
      • Feb 2007
      • 30537

      #3
      Originally posted by DracoM View Post
      < Comfortable and comforting. >

      WHAT?
      How much 'children's / YA's fiction have you read recently'???

      Try Patrick Ness's 'Chaos Walking' trilogy.
      or
      Tolkien's 'Lord of the Rings'?
      That isn't necessarily negating what I was saying, any more than when adults go to X-rated horror films. People know that this isn't reality which means that (most of the time) they can cope with the temporary emotional roller-coaster. It's still escapist.

      But the Observer story was focused on Harry Potter and Paddington Bear - and Harry Potter is almost certainly high on the list of purchases for young adults - and I was really thinking of the specific arguments being adduced by the author (of the book reviewed) as reasons to read children's books.
      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

      Comment

      • Cockney Sparrow
        Full Member
        • Jan 2014
        • 2293

        #4
        Not necessarily following the issues you raise here, but R4 Front Row on Friday (heard on a long car journey)
        Golden Age of Children's Books?
        Front Row

        Liz Pichon on her creation Tom Gates, the hugely popular series of books for young readers now on stage.

        Zanib Mian is the author of a new book about a Muslim family, Planet Omar - Accidental Trouble Magnet. Last year a report found that only 1% of children's books featured a main protagonist of colour. Alongside commentator and blogger Darren Chetty she considers whether that picture is changing - and whether any change will last.

        One in three books sold is aimed at children. Is this a golden age for children's books? Celebrity authors such as David Walliams are clocking up huge sales but what is the range and quality of all the books on offer? Children's book experts Dawn Finch and Imogen Russell Williams discuss.

        More along the lines of certain "well-known" (also selected to be heavily marketed) authors dominating the market, when there are excellent works by less prominent authors which deserve more attention than they get.
        Tom Gates author Liz Pichon and the quality of books for 6- to-12-year-olds.

        Comment

        • teamsaint
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 25235

          #5
          Some of this depends on the initial category that books are assigned to for data purposes.
          I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

          I am not a number, I am a free man.

          Comment

          • doversoul1
            Ex Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 7132

            #6
            Originally posted by french frank View Post
            That isn't necessarily negating what I was saying, any more than when adults go to X-rated horror films. People know that this isn't reality which means that (most of the time) they can cope with the temporary emotional roller-coaster. It's still escapist.

            But the Observer story was focused on Harry Potter and Paddington Bear - and Harry Potter is almost certainly high on the list of purchases for young adults - and I was really thinking of the specific arguments being adduced by the author (of the book reviewed) as reasons to read children's books.
            To me this is yet another article in the line of ‘David Bowie Prom is great’. Children’s books are written for children. There is absolutely no reasons for adults to read them for themselves.

            Anybody who is consciously, genuinely serious about children’s books will not ever mention Harry Potter and Paddington. These are, exactly, comfort books. Fine for children as long as these are not the only books they read.

            Go to children’s fiction to see the world with double eyes: your own, and those of your childhood self,

            This is a typical ‘comfort’ idea held by those who declare that they love children’s literature. Adults can only see the world through adults’ eyes. ‘Our childhood self’ is an artificial ‘memory’ constructed by adults, usually stuffed with sentimental concepts like innocence and optimistic.

            And the article didn’t even bother to print the original illustration of The Willows.

            All the same, try Howl’s Moving Castle by Diana Wynne Jones (1986). I think you will enjoy the way the language is used. Another book you may just enjoy is The Ghost of Thomas Kempe by Penelope Lively. You may enjoy these books because they are both, well, very well written.
            [ed.] On second thought, don’t bother. I think you/one may need to be interested in some aspects of children to see the point of these books.

            DracoM
            Would you read 'Chaos Walking' trilogy if they were published as novels for adult readers? My guess is you wouldn’t.
            Last edited by doversoul1; 21-04-19, 19:31.

            Comment

            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30537

              #7
              Originally posted by doversoul1 View Post
              To me this is yet another article in the line of ‘David Bowie Prom is great’. Children’s books are written for children. There is absolutely no reasons for adults to read them for themselves.
              I think that touches on the point that struck me (or one of them) about the article - pushing the idea that adults will derive great profit from reading children's books. If anyone wants to read them, if they enjoy them (comforting or uncomfortable), of course they need have no other reason for doing so. I would perhaps suggest that children's fiction was a genre, along with Westerns, science or detective fiction, thrillers. I'm sure it could be argued that reading any quality fiction in any genre would be rewarding, but why should children's fiction provide me with greater reward than reading, say, science fiction - another genre which has nil appeal for me?

              As for the notion of adults buying audio versions to have the stories read to them, it does make me think that if you pay, you can usually find people to do things for you - clean the house, tidy the garden, cook for you, take the dog for a walk, read you a story …

              Draco mentioned The Lord of the Rings: I'm not sure Tolkien intended it for children. It's not in the same category as The Hobbit which I think he wrote for his own children.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • doversoul1
                Ex Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 7132

                #8
                Originally posted by french frank View Post
                I think that touches on the point that struck me (or one of them) about the article - pushing the idea that adults will derive great profit from reading children's books. If anyone wants to read them, if they enjoy them (comforting or uncomfortable), of course they need have no other reason for doing so. I would perhaps suggest that children's fiction was a genre, along with Westerns, science or detective fiction, thrillers. I'm sure it could be argued that reading any quality fiction in any genre would be rewarding, but why should children's fiction provide me with greater reward than reading, say, science fiction - another genre which has nil appeal for me?

                As for the notion of adults buying audio versions to have the stories read to them, it does make me think that if you pay, you can usually find people to do things for you - clean the house, tidy the garden, cook for you, take the dog for a walk, read you a story …

                Draco mentioned The Lord of the Rings: I'm not sure Tolkien intended it for children. It's not in the same category as The Hobbit which I think he wrote for his own children.
                The Lord of the Rings is very much a book for adults and like Treasure Island children can read and enjoy too. Those adults who tell you that they read them six times and can recite every page are usually not interested in Hobbit if they have ever heard of it.

                Comment

                • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                  Gone fishin'
                  • Sep 2011
                  • 30163

                  #9
                  Originally posted by doversoul1 View Post
                  Those adults who tell you that they read them six times and can recite every page are usually not interested in Hobbit if they have ever heard of it.
                  Oooh, I think, post-Jackson, there isn't anyone who hasn't at least heard of The Hobbit.
                  [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                  Comment

                  • LezLee
                    Full Member
                    • Apr 2019
                    • 634

                    #10
                    In Sheffield Libraries we classified Lord of the Rings as Young Adult but they were usually borrowed by older people. I read them when I was 26 and although fantasy didn't usually appeal to me, I did enjoy them. I don't think I would now and I've never watched the films. It's completely beyond me why adults want to read the dreaded Harry P. I've been told they're not even well-written.

                    Comment

                    • jayne lee wilson
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 10711

                      #11
                      Originally posted by LezLee View Post
                      In Sheffield Libraries we classified Lord of the Rings as Young Adult but they were usually borrowed by older people. I read them when I was 26 and although fantasy didn't usually appeal to me, I did enjoy them. I don't think I would now and I've never watched the films. It's completely beyond me why adults want to read the dreaded Harry P. I've been told they're not even well-written.
                      OH, do try to see the film trilogy; it is visually splendid, stunningly inventive, witty, and finally very, very moving; the last of them, The Return of the King, ​ranks high on my and many people's favourites lists. (I couldn't even manage three pages of the novels though...)

                      Comment

                      • doversoul1
                        Ex Member
                        • Dec 2010
                        • 7132

                        #12
                        Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                        OH, do try to see the film trilogy; it is visually splendid, stunningly inventive, witty, and finally very, very moving; the last of them, The Return of the King, ​ranks high on my and many people's favourites lists. (I couldn't even manage three pages of the novels though...)
                        There is no reason why adults shouldn’t indulge themselves in escapist fantasies but the question about the value of adults reading children’s literature is an unrelated question to watching those f'antasy' films.

                        Incidentally, the Prof himself didn’t recognise what he was watching when his son (may have been a grandson) took him to the cinema (might have been the première).

                        The first Harry Potter book is a very well written children’s book in the sense as Enid Blyton’s books are good; it presses all the right buttons to get children excited. It seems that the author also discovered exactly how to get adults excited too. From that point, she is a highly talented writer. All the same, I think Harry Potter ‘boom’ is more a social phenomenon (it tells us about the society we live in now) than anything about literature.
                        Last edited by doversoul1; 22-04-19, 09:38. Reason: re-worded

                        Comment

                        • french frank
                          Administrator/Moderator
                          • Feb 2007
                          • 30537

                          #13
                          Originally posted by doversoul1 View Post
                          There is no reason why adults shouldn’t indulge themselves in escapist fantasies but that’s nothing to do with the question about the value of adults reading children’s literature.
                          That was what I felt. There seemed to be a generalisation in the article that good children's literature was something adults would benefit from reading. To which I would add, "Yes, if you think you'll enjoy it." I read The Hobbit as a (late?) teenager, post LotR bursting in on my brother's consciousness, in his case followed by The Hobbit and everything else Tolkien ever wrote. It didn't excite me, and I never did get into the trilogy.

                          Originally posted by doversoul1 View Post
                          The first Harry Potter book is a very well written children’s book in the sense as Enid Blyton’s books are good; it presses all the right buttons to get children excited. It seems that the author also discovered exactly how to get adults excited too. From that point, she is a highly talented writer.
                          In that respect, the much derided and despised Jeffrey Archer springs to mind as having the same knack of penning a best-seller. On which subject, I seem to remember him saying that you didn't need talent to write a best-seller - just a lot of energy (and if other writers are to be believed, an ability to put your own writing at the centre of your life in a particularly me-first way). People obviously look for different things from their leisure-time reading. A page-turner, excitement, ripping yarns, unputdownable &c are useful descriptions which save me the bother of picking them up in the first place.

                          Originally posted by doversoul1 View Post
                          All the same, I think Harry Potter ‘boom’ is more a social phenomenon (it tells us about the society we live in now) than anything about literature.
                          So many things which are now able to command the attention (and probably extract the money) of megamillions of people are products of our global world and contemporary marketing, so the magnitude of their success is certainly a phenomenon of our age, but not a measure of quality, it's the phenomenon. It seems to me that we have no yardstick of quality in popular culture. It usually seems to be no more than enthusiasts enthusing. You might as well use a clapometer.
                          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                          Comment

                          • doversoul1
                            Ex Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 7132

                            #14
                            In the field of children’s literature (university academics, reviewers, and some writers), there has always been a pressing desire to ‘elevate’ children’s literature by proving that it is not just for children, in the very much similar way as the attempt to ‘promote’ classical music by proving that it’s not ‘difficult’ music for a certain group of population.

                            Comment

                            • DracoM
                              Host
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 12995

                              #15
                              Much YA fiction [and even earlier] deals with pressing human problems, choices and dilemmas.
                              The dividing line between that and 'adult fiction' is getting ever more blurred. In a way, it is perhaps even counter-productive and misleading to categorise in this way.

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