The Lost World of the LP: The Essay

[Braunschlag]

Looking at the CD set, Track 2 is 49’ long, I’ll have to go check the LP, that’s a long track to put on vinyl, too long I think.

[Bryn]

Looking at the CD set, Track 2 is 49’ long, I’ll have to go check the LP, that’s a long track to put on vinyl, too long I think.

Is it not edited over 2 sides of LP (shown as totalling 47' 50" in the https://www.discogs.com/Karlheinz-St...release/644983 listing)?

[cloughie]

I'm sure that there was a letter in Gramophone that said ' The most obvious advantage of the CD is not mentioned by manufacturers or critics, namely being easier to smuggle into the house thus avoiding the wrath of a woman who feels that money would be better spent on baby clothes!'

That is no help when receiving big box sets via the post!

[Bryn]

That is no help when receiving big box sets via the post!

You might have a better chance if using a 'pick-up' facility offered by some suppliers, though you have to get the timing right.

[pastoralguy]

I think the letter appeared in Gramophone when a set of cds was as rare as hen's teeth.

[cloughie]

You might have a better chance if using a 'pick-up' facility offered by some suppliers, though you have to get the timing right.

No I’ll stick to the CD Addicts (Quasi Russian) Roulette - it has worked so far!

[Conchis]

I've been called a crank for my adherence to CDs but surely it's a very strange classical/orchestral/opera lover who would prefer vinyl to CDs?

Apart from the high maintenance nature of the medium, you also have the side-breaks to contend with.

No: vinyl is a dead medium, artificially kept alive by a hipness factor constructed in record company board-rooms. I keep some of my LPs for sentimental reasons but no longer have a turntable.

I don't miss jumps, pops and clicks one bit.

[pastoralguy]

I've been called a crank for my adherence to CDs but surely it's a very strange classical/orchestral/opera lover who would prefer vinyl to CDs?

Apart from the high maintenance nature of the medium, you also have the side-breaks to contend with.

No: vinyl is a dead medium, artificially kept alive by a hipness factor constructed in record company board-rooms. I keep some of my LPs for sentimental reasons but no longer have a turntable.

I don't miss jumps, pops and clicks one bit.

[pastoralguy]

Like Conchis, I kept a few of my Lps for sentimental reasons. Last year I took a couple of them to our local Hi-Fi boutique when they were hosting a 'turntable event' with VERY expensive decks rigged up to top class equipment. One of the Lps I took was one of four my mother bought me for my 16th birthday. Karajan's Tchaikovsky 5 with, of course, the mighty Berliner Philharmoniker. I also took the equivalent cd from the 1970's Karajan set for comparison.

Well, there was no comparison! I've probably not heard the Lp since I got my first CD player in the mid 80's and the disc had been kept in an Lp box in my folks spare bedroom and It didn't sound good at all. In fact the esoteric equipment simply amplified the distortion, surface noise and a couple of minor scratches. The cd sounded terrific!

I should mention that, like most classical vinyl lovers, I attempted to take great care of my precious Lps but the medium was so flawed to begin with that it simply didn't stand up to repeated playing. (And that's before one takes the convenience factor into consideration). I do remember 'surfing' a cd shortly after I hooked up my first CD player , probably trying to find a 'good bit' and my mother saying "You'll scratch that disc until its ruined!" I had to explain to her that it wasn't a needle but a laser and that one couldn't spoil a disc simply by skipping through it.

[Conchis]

Like Conchis, I kept a few of my Lps for sentimental reasons. Last year I took a couple of them to our local Hi-Fi boutique when they were hosting a 'turntable event' with VERY expensive decks rigged up to top class equipment. One of the Lps I took was one of four my mother bought me for my 16th birthday. Karajan's Tchaikovsky 5 with, of course, the mighty Berliner Philharmoniker. I also took the equivalent cd from the 1970's Karajan set for comparison.

Well, there was no comparison! I've probably not heard the Lp since I got my first CD player in the mid 80's and the disc had been kept in an Lp box in my folks spare bedroom and It didn't sound good at all. In fact the esoteric equipment simply amplified the distortion, surface noise and a couple of minor scratches. The cd sounded terrific!

I should mention that, like most classical vinyl lovers, I attempted to take great care of my precious Lps but the medium was so flawed to begin with that it simply didn't stand up to repeated playing. (And that's before one takes the convenience factor into consideration). I do remember 'surfing' a cd shortly after I hooked up my first CD player , probably trying to find a 'good bit' and my mother saying "You'll scratch that disc until its ruined!" I had to explain to her that it wasn't a needle but a laser and that one couldn't spoil a disc simply by skipping through it.

The quality of vinyl (in Europe, at least) supposedly declined after the Yom Kippur war of 1973 and the price hikes by the OPEC oil-producing countries. By the 80s, vinyl deterioration was noticeable after only a couple of plays in the case of reissued LPs.

[pastoralguy]

The quality of vinyl (in Europe, at least) supposedly declined after the Yom Kippur war of 1973 and the price hikes by the OPEC oil-producing countries. By the 80s, vinyl deterioration was noticeable after only a couple of plays in the case of reissued LPs.

I'm sure that today's vinyl records are superb but it still leaves a slightly bad taste in my mouth that, as an impecunious youth, I was paying top $ for an inferior product. No wonder music lovers gave cd such a warm welcome.

[Old Grumpy]

Thanks to one and all on this thread. Sounds like it's not worth listening to this programme. My views are fixed, firmly in the CD camp.

OG

[jayne lee wilson]

That is no help when receiving big box sets via the post!

Wow... so - some of you hetros really do still live this way.... I'm in awe.......

[jayne lee wilson]

Interesting programme, although nothing particularly new as others have commented.

Having had a ‘vinyl revival’ over the past 10-12 years (bit hazy here), it was fun whilst it lasted.
I soon learnt that for vinyl to reach anything like the resolution and quality of digital formats requires rather indulgent sums of money for starters. I went through at least four turntables, each eclipsing its predecessor in both cost and engineering complexity.

At the end of it all it simply became a huge faff and time-consuming effort to play a record (in addition to wiping out at least three moving coil styli with overzealous cleaning, that was an expensive mistake!).

I think I enjoyed the tinkering and setting up more than the sonic benefit - I won’t ever say that vinyl is a better sound, it’s different but that’s all. Now it’s all gone it good to have space back, a few less yards of cabling and no need to dust,clean, spray; why is everything vinyl made of acrylic, the worlds worst dust magnet.

“Bryn’s point about the Feldman , though, is a good one. That LP only release really does seem daft.”

Bryn’s Point is a good one. I recall the look of utter delight when I mentioned to another forum member that I had a copy of ‘Aus dem seben tagen’ on vinyl from its original DG release, complete with the original madcap booklet. Never released on CD I think. Needless to say I managed to do a very fine digital copy for said moderator (oops, cat out of bag:).
Perhaps the only time I’ve ever really heard Stockhausen properly as it all had to be done in real time of course. Stunning recording by the way, especially with the hammering nails into floorboards section. It was so realistic I thought they were building a shed next door.

It was a nice diversion and I really do miss that tactile business. Is it worth it? On reflection I’d say no to doing it all again.

Mind you, I wish someone would release that first Rach 3/Gavrilov which was on Greensleeves, a superb performance, even with those wobbly horns.

Most enjoyable piece - thank you...!

I recall those Stockhausen LPs and their extraordinary notes... it was actually in the local Record Library when it opened in 1973 along with many other life-changing obscurities....

I drew out the hefty Stockhausen box, brand-new never-borrowed (surprise...!) from the rack...it wouldn't fit into my plastic LP-sized case, but I still took it home.... I'd never heard of the work before. What I actually made of it (having been very pleasurably dazed and confused by Kontra-Punkte) is erased from my memory...
The booklet however, inspired some very bad poetry...

[teamsaint]

I've been called a crank for my adherence to CDs but surely it's a very strange classical/orchestral/opera lover who would prefer vinyl to CDs?

Apart from the high maintenance nature of the medium, you also have the side-breaks to contend with.

No: vinyl is a dead medium, artificially kept alive by a hipness factor constructed in record company board-rooms. I keep some of my LPs for sentimental reasons but no longer have a turntable.

I don't miss jumps, pops and clicks one bit.

It isn’t being kept artificially alive, it is booming because some people actually want vinyl. Lots of young people . And they are spending their hard earned because they actually like the vinyl experience.

I doubt many of them think it is, purely sonically, a better experience than streaming or CD but it is a different way to access music,one that older generations took for granted.
The experiences that came out of the musical scarcity of the vinyl age , that David Hepworth described, weren’t all negative. And new generations are discovering some of the pluses.
Better to try harder to understand why this is happening , than dismiss it out of hand as a boardroom driven hipster fad.

Record companies, the ones that we want to see thrive and bring us exciting new music and recordings, are getting valuable extra income. I’d think most of us should be pleased about that.

A lad in out office recently ordered a swans 4 album box set on vinyl. He was so pleased with it, and it’ll give him a lot of pleasure. And between listens, he can go back to streaming old post punk albums that I recommend to him, as well as all the other stuff he discovers there.

I’m really struggling to see the problem. Actually, I’m not, because there isn’t one.

Indcidentally the trend in book publishing ( picked up on early by James Daunt at Waterstones), is to better quality finish, and higher price point outside of mass market fiction. Vinyl and its position as a premium purchase more or less reflects this trend.