HELP PLEASE! What the Dickens does Barthes mean by TEXT?

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  • Pianorak
    Full Member
    • Nov 2010
    • 3128

    #16
    From Wipidedia:

    Readerly text

    A text that makes no requirement of the reader to "write" or "produce" his or her own meanings. The reader may passively locate "ready-made" meaning. Barthes writes that these sorts of text are "controlled by the principle of non-contradiction" (156), that is, they do not disturb the "common sense," or "Doxa," of the surrounding culture. The "readerly texts," moreover, "are products [that] make up the enormous mass of our literature" (5). Within this category, there is a spectrum of "replete literature," which comprises "any classic (readerly) texts" that work "like a cupboard where meanings are shelved, stacked, [and] safeguarded" (200).[3]

    Writerly text

    A text that aspires to the proper goal of literature and criticism: "... to make the reader no longer a consumer but a producer of the text" (4). Writerly texts and ways of reading constitute, in short, an active rather than passive way of interacting with a culture and its texts. A culture and its texts, Barthes writes, should never be accepted in their given forms and traditions. As opposed to the "readerly texts" as "product," the "writerly text is ourselves writing, before the infinite play of the world is traversed, intersected, stopped, plasticized by some singular system (Ideology, Genus, Criticism) which reduces the plurality of entrances, the opening of networks, the infinity of languages" (5). Thus reading becomes for Barthes "not a parasitical act, the reactive complement of a writing," but rather a "form of work" (10).
    My life, each morning when I dress, is four and twenty hours less. (J Richardson)

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    • aka Calum Da Jazbo
      Late member
      • Nov 2010
      • 9173

      #17
      many thanks indeed, it will be due this week no doubt ... i have forwarded eudaemonia's and pianorak's substantive words ... which accord with my own guess as to what it might refer to ... what an over egged reification ...

      i am most grateful for the comments already made and any further observations any one might care to offer .....


      i find reading John Dewey pretty tough as well, his writing has an archaic density that takes me great effort to find what might be the argument ...
      According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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      • Eudaimonia

        #18
        Glad to help! If she hasn't seen it already, she might get a lot out of reading Barthes' "Death of the Author", too:


        Did Borges copy from Barthes or Barthes from Borges?
        Hm. I never thought of it, but I did find this passage online...

        Comment

        • 2LO

          #19
          Oh well there y'go, thanks for that. Maybe they both copied from someone else then!

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          • aka Calum Da Jazbo
            Late member
            • Nov 2010
            • 9173

            #20
            ...thanks again Eudaimonia ....

            here is what intrigues me as much as anything .... the consumatory act of writing is publication ... the choice to release [and the end of revision] .... now in music or theatre [Albee springs to mind ... just topically] we recognise an authorial presence, often within seconds or less ...BEETHOVEN we tell ourselves be it piano sonata, quartet, symphony etc ... listening to dialogue we can make a similar attribution irrespective of the work .... or i guess reading prose also ... my question is how the choice to release by the author and the recognition of the 'hallmark' are related ... is what satisfies the author the root of our recognition of her presence in the work ...

            now most works will puzzle us and we are unable to make any meaningful attribution ... and familiarity is necessary, just as it is in everyday person perception ... we know who is talking very quickly .... we have to learn to do this ... and in turn are recognised by our learning ....

            now an extremely modest and diffident writer who creates chilling paradoxical parables of great subtlety and intelligence might well distance his engagement with the released work ... as might an academic intellectual elaborating synaptic insights in a cloud of filigree words ... disappearing as an author behind the cloud of ambiguities and avoidance of lucidity .... the disengagement of both is a personal as well as authorial practice ... is personality the text of text?
            According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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            • Bax-of-Delights
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 745

              #21
              Calum:
              Is your sprog at Sussex University perchance? I was a mature student in recent years for a first and second degree within the English Literature department and I discovered that it was one of the few places still devoted to the French lit.crits. Foucault, Barthes, Lacan were de rigeur and I have to say the emphasis on this area finally deterred me from following on into a PhD.

              Now, writing as an author, I'd say the consummation of the work is indeed - and only - in the reading of the text. And then the text can be read in various and innumerable ways. What I INTEND in writing - let's say for example an oblique reference to Edward Thomas' Adlestrop (as there is) - can be easily missed. If it isn't spotted that's not a problem BUT the inflection written into the text carries added weight and 'hidden' understanding which only the reader can bring to the page.
              O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

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              • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                Late member
                • Nov 2010
                • 9173

                #22
                Bax of Delights no not Sussex, and i would like to protect her privacy with your agreement ...

                when i wrote the word consumatory i was describing only the writing act, the decision to let the work go out .... the point at which the author ceases to add or revise and gives it away rather than binning burning or deleting ... i think this is an interesting moment from the psychological point of view ... the moment when the work can go to print, the painting leave the studio, the score go to the performers ... i think it is a very complex decision point ...
                Last edited by aka Calum Da Jazbo; 02-05-11, 21:38.
                According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                Comment

                • Bax-of-Delights
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 745

                  #23
                  Of course Calum - no breaking of privacy intended.

                  It could be argued that the author never consumates the writing act, being forever unwilling to release the work for fear of it being incomplete or flawed in some way. It is only when it is read and freed from the author's hand that the text becomes - interpreted and re-interpreted by each seperate anad single reader who "reads" it.
                  (My grasp of Barthes et al was and remains incomplete and I am ready to admit, will always remain so. I only comment from my own experience of authorship.)
                  O Wort, du Wort, das mir Fehlt!

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                  • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                    Late member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 9173

                    #24



                    i find Borges a more convincing proposition ....

                    i think that that decision point haunts the entire process of creation or discovery or etc .... and the diffidence of B&B is a way for them to make the decision
                    According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                    Comment

                    • vinteuil
                      Full Member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 12982

                      #25
                      Originally posted by aka Calum Da Jazbo View Post
                      ...

                      when i wrote the word consumatory i was describing only the writing act, the decision to let the work go out .... the point at which the author ceases to add or revise and gives it away rather than binning burning or deleting ... i think this is an interesting moment from the psychological point of view ... the moment when the work can go to print, the painting leave the studio, the score go to the performers ... i think it is a very complex decision point ...
                      ... my late father was an artist, and he would have completely agreed with you. He often said that it was one of the great mysteries as to 'when an artist knew when to stop' - which particular brush-stroke or pencil line made the artist stop and 'know' that that was it...

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                      • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                        Late member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 9173

                        #26
                        and it is my thought that that 'knowing' is a deep expression of the artist's personality and that the choice point is a critical moment in artistic work
                        According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

                        Comment

                        • Forget It (U2079353)
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 132

                          #27
                          Perhaps there is mnemonic text --> tissue of culture -->texture
                          or
                          perhaps not since it was all conceived in French, was it not?

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                          • aka Calum Da Jazbo
                            Late member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 9173

                            #28
                            well on my reading of Barthes Forget It, that should make no difference, but it might make a distinction ??
                            According to the best estimates of astronomers there are at least one hundred billion galaxies in the observable universe.

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