HELP PLEASE! What the Dickens does Barthes mean by TEXT?

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

Sprog announced her being 'fazed' by this ..and asked for help ...i have read at least twice, and could not stand another go, it seems impenetrable and meaningless or a reification of the possibilities of language using minds .... i am at a loss ...

what does he mean by TEXT?

[vinteuil]

ah, well if you're going to take Barthes 'seriously' rather than as 'entertainment' - then there is no hope for you...


yrs ludically

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i can take him or leave him any which way including loose but sprog has an essay to write! and yup no hope!

..and as a plaything it is not that entertaining really and as entertainment it is not at all playful ...it makes me glassy eyed and beady with perspiration

[vinteuil]

aka - my feelings go out fr yr sprog. I think there is a kind of French writing which is absolutely untranslatable into English. Often to be found in French music criticism - whether reviews, record sleeves, or more weighty stuff - if you try to put it into decent intelligible English - it just won't wash. There is a French aesthetic rhetoric which is sui generis - it's a soap bubble that just-about holds together if you don't prod it too hard - but once you ask - but what does it actually MEAN? - it disappears with a pluf! that makes your eyes smart...

[Nick Armstrong]

aka - my feelings go out fr yr sprog. I think there is a kind of French writing which is absolutely untranslatable into English. Often to be found in French music criticism - whether reviews, record sleeves, or more weighty stuff - if you try to put it into decent intelligible English - it just won't wash. There is a French aesthetic rhetoric which is sui generis - it's a soap bubble that just-about holds together if you don't prod it too hard - but once you ask - but what does it actually MEAN? - it disappears with a pluf! that makes your eyes smart...

Gosh that's well put, vints! I've often thought the same with a or even a without being able to put it into words.

Scant help to Ms Jazbo though!!

Oh! i just saw the link you gave is a translation by Stephen Heath... i know Stephen, he's a fellow at my old college. I might have his email address... We could ask him what the hell it's all about!

When's her essay due???

[vinteuil]

Stephen Heath... i know Stephen, he's a fellow at my old college.

oh, Cambridge - yes, Caliberman, I suppose it was to be expected that you were from the other place,,,

[Nick Armstrong]

oh, Cambridge - yes, Caliberman, I suppose it was to be expected that you were from the other place,,,

As opposed to Thames Valley Poly? Your alma, vints?

[Anna]

As opposed to Thames Valley Poly? Your alma, vints?

I am the product of a Poly. Oh Lordy, Lordy, don't it show? <hangs head in despair> and visulaliises the Bullingham Club

[vinteuil]

Calipers - what with "a most complex and interesting cast of mind, M Vinteuil" - what else wd you expect

[Eudaimonia]

Here's a stab at it:

By "Text" he means both the actual writing and what the observer/reader brings to it-- not only in terms of understanding the totality of the political/historical/economic context in which it was written, but the subjective experience of the reader and his political/historical/economic context-- as well as that of the language itself. As he said elsewhere, "text is a tissue [or fabric] of quotations drawn from innumerable centers of culture," rather than from the individual experience of the author.

In a nutshell, every piece of writing contains multiple layers and meanings, none of which should be privileged over the rest, and every time we read the work, we recreate it anew.

V: cop-out much?

[2LO]

. . . every time we read the work, we recreate it anew.

Did Borges copy from Barthes or Barthes from Borges?

[Russ]

I can't imagine Borges copying Barthes, but have I misunderstood your point, 2LO?

Russ

[Nick Armstrong]

Oh Lordy, Lordy, don't it show?

It most certainly does NOT, Anna!!

[2LO]

I can't imagine Borges copying Barthes, but have I misunderstood your point, 2LO?

Not so much a point, Russ, as a comment on Eudaimonia's explanation of text according to Barthes.

Borges always said that reading was a more creative process than writing; that an infinite series of reinterpretations were perfectly valid even from an apparently unchanging set of words. My own (rather cursory) readings of the likes of 'Mythologies' tend to leave me mystified. If Eudaimonia's summary of this aspect of Barthes is correct, the two would appear to be barking up the same tree. So to speak.

[Pianorak]

From an Edward Albee interview in today's Daily Telegraph:

“I remind people that no two people see the same play, that no two people bring the same intelligence, or the same willingness to participate,” he says. “And the other answer I have to 'What’s your play about?’ I usually say 'Oh, this one’s about an hour and a half.’ It helps.”