Drama to be eradicated from Radio 3

[french frank]

It's a lot of us - damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Today's afternoon schedule is an example of where I have given up on the last bits of daytime listening.

You have my sympathy, believe me. It's only my personal dogged, plodding character (which I acknowledge for what it is) that makes me loth to give up on anything which seems still to be unresolved in some way. I'm told that if I don't listen to R3 I 'can't criticise it', but merely reading through a standard R3 playlist makes me want to vomit - it's like being served 25 courses in quick succession, consisting of raspberry ice cream, kimchi, mushrooms à la grecque, trifle, a banana, a piece of Canadian cheddar, porridge, Christmas pudding ... I fully accept that other people have stronger stomachs.

Another Pepsi, vicar?

[Serial_Apologist]

It's a lot of us - damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Today's afternoon schedule is an example of where I have given up on the last bits of daytime listening. I would like to hear the "Ornaments of the Baroque", but apart from the problem of not having even an approximate start time, past experience and disappointment suggests that it won't be broadcast as shown, so there is no point in sitting down to listen.
Apathy doesn't come into it, I now simply don't have the mental or physical resources to fight for/against every issue that I feel strongly about, I have to prioritise.

The general problem I think consists in that problems proliferate exponentially, especially in the social, political and economic spheres of influence if not nipped in the bud, and that that exponentiality feeds back as uncontrollable at the individual level, so he or she then withdraws into subjective states and supposed answers. Gregory Bateson summed up this dilemma rather nicely in a speech he gave at the Roundhouse back in 1967:

"Dr Laing noted that the obvious can be very difficult for people to see. This is because people are self-corrective systems. They are self-corrective against disturbance, and if the obvious is not of a kind that they can easily assimilate without internal disturbance, their self-corrective mechanisms work to side-track it, to hide it, even to the extent of shutting the eyes if necessary, or shutting off various parts of the process of perception. Disturbing information can be framed like a pearl, so that it doesn't make a nuisance of itself. This too - the premise regarding what would cause disturbance - is something which is learned and then becomes perpetuated or conserved" (Bateson, G, Conscious Purpose Versus nature, in Cooper. D. The Dialectics of Liberation, 1968, Penguin Books, Harmondsworth, 1968, P. 37).

The problem is not that solutions can't be postponed until or if they can be coped with, but that they occur unnecessarily, for systemic reasons endemic to particular political systems with inbuilt power imbalance structures: ours being exemplified in its individualising or downscaling problems those at the top solve more collectively than we might think (given the illusion they're all supposed to be competing for our support, vote etc) which they get away with by promising before not then delivering.

[oddoneout]

That's me!

It's a lot of us - damned if we do, damned if we don't.
Today's afternoon schedule is an example of where I have given up on the last bits of daytime listening. I would like to hear the "Ornaments of the Baroque", but apart from the problem of not having even an approximate start time, past experience and disappointment suggests that it won't be broadcast as shown, so there is no point in sitting down to listen.
Apathy doesn't come into it, I now simply don't have the mental or physical resources to fight for/against every issue that I feel strongly about, I have to prioritise.

[LMcD]

It's an insoluble problem. If you/one/someone/a person keeps listening they are effectively endorsing the whole R3 strategy by maintaining reach. If they stop listening completely they are supporting the argument that R3 funding should be further cut as its reach decreases and the service should be further popularised. The choice is to cling on to the bits that still please you or take a stand against the wider changes. When it's apathy v action (as it often is), apathy wins

That's me!

[french frank]

I can't see myself abandoning R3 altogether, but increasingly tune in to yle Klassinen during the day.

It's an insoluble problem. If you/one/someone/a person keeps listening they are effectively endorsing the whole R3 strategy by maintaining reach. If they stop listening completely they are supporting the argument that R3 funding should be further cut as its reach decreases and the service should be further popularised. The choice is to cling on to the bits that still please you or take a stand against the wider changes. When it's apathy v action (as it often is), apathy wins

[LMcD]

Not surprising if those who want something more than what is currently being touted as R3 are leaving. I for one don't feel there is any point now in complaining about what has happened and continues to happen as I don't believe management is interested in what the "old"(in both senses) audience wants or thinks. I have taken my listening elsewhere, having discovered that there are online options I can access, (although not with the same sound quality as the radio) unlike my experience with Sounds.

I can't see myself abandoning R3 altogether, but increasingly tune in to yle Klassinen during the day.

[oddoneout]

They are and why not? But that was their original remit, no problem. Looking back 50 odd years, I'd say R3 is the only one of the BBC's radio stations which is no longer in essence what it set out to be. Detailed content may change over the years but R1 is still 'currently popular' music for younger audiences (age range tweaked slightly now and again}. R2 is a broad range (albeit narrower than it once was) of light popular music for an older age range. R4 is still speech programmes for the cosy middle-aged. If R3 was the station for the serious quality arts-loving audience, it no longer is.

Radio 3 was successor to the Third: ‘The Third Programme offered classical music, serious drama, literature and discussion' (BBC website) and so did R3, but it pitched its main speech programmes over to R4, is now casting its serious drama into oblivion. Where is the 'literature'? What are the 'discussion' programmes? Even the - increased - 'live' broadcast hours which are focused on classical music give little but hour after dreary hour of short, truncated bits and light aka 'classical' music'. IOW - Classic FM on Valium. I looked at the In Tune mixtape - 7 pieces in 30 minutes so each about the length of the average pop track. Why not one 30-min work, for Pete's sake?

The reason there isn't more of an outcry is that audiences are becoming increasingly intellectually lazy, accept what they're given. come to be satisfied by it - and then clamour for more of the same. Enter Radio 3 Chill.

Not surprising if those who want something more than what is currently being touted as R3 are leaving. I for one don't feel there is any point now in complaining about what has happened and continues to happen as I don't believe management is interested in what the "old"(in both senses) audience wants or thinks. I have taken my listening elsewhere, having discovered that there are online options I can access, (although not with the same sound quality as the radio) unlike my experience with Sounds.

[LMcD]

They are and why not? But that was their original remit, no problem. Looking back 50 odd years, I'd say R3 is the only one of the BBC's radio stations which is no longer in essence what it set out to be. Detailed content may change over the years but R1 is still 'currently popular' music for younger audiences (age range tweaked slightly now and again}. R2 is a broad range (albeit narrower than it once was) of light popular music for an older age range. R4 is still speech programmes for the cosy middle-aged. If R3 was the station for the serious quality arts-loving audience, it no longer is.

Radio 3 was successor to the Third: ‘The Third Programme offered classical music, serious drama, literature and discussion' (BBC website) and so did R3, but it pitched its main speech programmes over to R4, is now casting its serious drama into oblivion. Where is the 'literature'? What are the 'discussion' programmes? Even the - increased - 'live' broadcast hours which are focused on classical music give little but hour after dreary hour of short, truncated bits and light aka 'classical' music'. IOW - Classic FM on Valium. I looked at the In Tune mixtape - 7 pieces in 30 minutes so each about the length of the average pop track. Why not one 30-min work, for Pete's sake?

The reason there isn't more of an outcry is that audiences are becoming increasingly intellectually lazy, accept what they're given. come to be satisfied by it - and then clamour for more of the same. Enter Radio 3 Chill.

There's precious little of that on Radio 2, I would say.

[Serial_Apologist]

They are and why not? But that was their original remit, no problem. Looking back 50 odd years, I'd say R3 is the only one of the BBC's radio stations which is no longer in essence what it set out to be. Detailed content may change over the years but R1 is still 'currently popular' music for younger audiences (age range tweaked slightly now and again}. R2 is a broad range (albeit narrower than it once was) of light popular music for an older age range. R4 is still speech programmes for the cosy middle-aged. If R3 was the station for the serious quality arts-loving audience, it no longer is.

Radio 3 was successor to the Third: ‘The Third Programme offered classical music, serious drama, literature and discussion' (BBC website) and so did R3, but it pitched its main speech programmes over to R4, is now casting its serious drama into oblivion. Where is the 'literature'? What are the 'discussion' programmes? Even the - increased - 'live' broadcast hours which are focused on classical music give little but hour after dreary hour of short, truncated bits and light aka 'classical' music'. IOW - Classic FM on Valium. I looked at the In Tune mixtape - 7 pieces in 30 minutes so each about the length of the average pop track. Why not one 30-min work, for Pete's sake?

The reason there isn't more of an outcry is that audiences are becoming increasingly intellectually lazy, accept what they're given. come to be satisfied by it - and then clamour for more of the same. Enter Radio 3 Chill.

And this, it should be added, is because they're being groomed into not being informed through being fed substitutes discouraging informed thinking on matters provoking opportunities to question, and questioning to think about how things might be different beyond the aesthetic/intellectual. it has nothing (in my view) to do with innate laziness or compliance tendencies in "human nature".

[french frank]

I don’t think are permitted to play jazz or pop at all. In some ways they are a more purely classical Station than R3 .

They are and why not? But that was their original remit, no problem. Looking back 50 odd years, I'd say R3 is the only one of the BBC's radio stations which is no longer in essence what it set out to be. Detailed content may change over the years but R1 is still 'currently popular' music for younger audiences (age range tweaked slightly now and again}. R2 is a broad range (albeit narrower than it once was) of light popular music for an older age range. R4 is still speech programmes for the cosy middle-aged. If R3 was the station for the serious quality arts-loving audience, it no longer is.

Radio 3 was successor to the Third: ‘The Third Programme offered classical music, serious drama, literature and discussion' (BBC website) and so did R3, but it pitched its main speech programmes over to R4, is now casting its serious drama into oblivion. Where is the 'literature'? What are the 'discussion' programmes? Even the - increased - 'live' broadcast hours which are focused on classical music give little but hour after dreary hour of short, truncated bits and light aka 'classical' music'. IOW - Classic FM on Valium. I looked at the In Tune mixtape - 7 pieces in 30 minutes so each about the length of the average pop track. Why not one 30-min work, for Pete's sake?

The reason there isn't more of an outcry is that audiences are becoming increasingly intellectually lazy, accept what they're given. come to be satisfied by it - and then clamour for more of the same. Enter Radio 3 Chill.

[vinteuil]

Nancy Mitford who started all this U and non U nonsense (e.g . Looking Glass / Mirror , lavatory / toilet , drawing room / lounge ) did so , apparently , as a joke and was horrified when the English started taking it seriously ..

... it began with Alan Ross, a serious professor of linguistics, in an essay on sociolinguistics showing how class affects the use of language -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U_and_non-U_English

Ross, Alan S. C., "Linguistic class-indicators in present-day English", Neuphilologische Mitteilungen (Helsinki), vol. 55(1)



.

[LMcD]

Isn’t Classic FM policed / regulated quite heavily by OFCOM in terms of range of content ? - I don’t think are permitted to play jazz or pop at all. In some ways they are a more purely classical Station than R3 .

They certainly seem to have a very restricted playlist.

[Ein Heldenleben]

But he's 'narrowing the focus', isn't he? Concentrating on 'classical music' (of course including film music, musicals, gaming music &c &c) is exactly what CFM does. I suspect a now growing majority of the R3 audience is of the easy listening, no need to concentrate type of listener who tunes in and out as the trails come, or Walking the Dog again, or Bobby Vinton and who is progressively less capable of sustained listening. Does the content of Breakfast, Essential Classics and Classical Live, for instance, really create different audiences?

It is statistically possible to suggest, if not evidentially prove, that CFM's diminishing audience is explained by their losing listeners to R3 due to the convergence of their programming content and style. Radio 3 loses the audience which is no longer adequately served but makes up for the loss by gaining from CFM, so the R3 reach remains static(-ish).

Isn’t Classic FM policed / regulated quite heavily by OFCOM in terms of range of content ? - I don’t think are permitted to play jazz or pop at all. In some ways they are a more purely classical Station than R3 .

[french frank]

Rather than 'sharpening the focus', I'm starting to wonder whether young Jackson is actually in the process of creating different, and sometimes distinct, Radio 3 audiences. I wonder, for example, how many people tune in (i) only until 9.30 a.m. (ii) only until 1.00 p.m. and (iii) only after 7.30 p.m.?

But he's 'narrowing the focus', isn't he? Concentrating on 'classical music' (of course including film music, musicals, gaming music &c &c) is exactly what CFM does. I suspect a now growing majority of the R3 audience is of the easy listening, no need to concentrate type of listener who tunes in and out as the trails come, or Walking the Dog again, or Bobby Vinton and who is progressively less capable of sustained listening. Does the content of Breakfast, Essential Classics and Classical Live, for instance, really create different audiences?

It is statistically possible to suggest, if not evidentially prove, that CFM's diminishing audience is explained by their losing listeners to R3 due to the convergence of their programming content and style. Radio 3 loses the audience which is no longer adequately served but makes up for the loss by gaining from CFM, so the R3 reach remains static(-ish).

[Ein Heldenleben]

A good letter in today's Times:

Good letter but this joint letter from some of best actors and theatricals might have more impact.

https://www.thetimes.com/culture/tv-radio/article/bbc-defends-radio-3-drama-cuts-against-stars-protest-3792tcvl0

I’ve hardened my stance on this . Having seen how little other serious one off drama there is across BBC output it seems almost inexplicable. I don’t think this would have happened under former DG’s . I actually wonder if the current one was aware of it? I suspect there may be a BBC singers style compromise in the offing. The threat to axe them seemed to flush out money from outside sources. Which raises the question of why a multi billion pound organisation should need it.

Have to say I don’t think Sam is playing his (not very strong ) hand that well. He’s generating too much press and public flak,