Drama to be eradicated from Radio 3

[french frank]

... as in the Russell / Moore discourse -

Yes. I had a transcript bookmarked for ages, and read it quite often. I don't think I've heard it since the LP came out.

But what is the grammatical term for something which leaves the actual meaning in doubt in this particular way?

[vinteuil]

I can't remember what the grammatical term is for the use or absence of the definite article, where the reference is to some or a substantial amount but not all within the relevant category...

... as in the Russell / Moore discourse -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSifxC_L9F0

.

[french frank]

Bit harsh that : I would say that series like The Wire and The Sopranos are as good as or better than a great deal of Jacobean Tragedy and many contemporary sitcoms are both funnier and wiser than a good deal of 18th and virtually all 19th century comedy.

I wasn't writing it all off! I can't remember what the grammatical term is for the use or absence of the definite article, where the reference is to some or a substantial amount but not all within the relevant category. So not all written-for-radio drama is bad (though it may or may not be ephemeral). Sitcom, I believe, is 'comedy' rather than 'drama'...

[Ein Heldenleben]

In BBC-speak, 'drama' has a very wide definition. Everything from soaps to The Archers is 'drama': most is contemporay, written for radio/television. So the rich heritage of theatre is valued on the same metric as classical music: how many people enjoy them compared with the dramatic and musical ephemera of today's here today, gone tomorrow product? It's cut-throat competition with other broadcasters because the BBC has chosen to compete for the same audience and ditch the content which no one else provides.

I feel very heartened by your comments as it gives me hope that there are many more listeners lurking silently and who feel the same way. Every morning I think of a new approach for a letter to the BBC <sigh>, laying out arguments that they will understand, still less have any influence at all.



Nor did I 30 years ago. To rephrase the saying about lunatics: the philistines have taken over the arts world.

Bit harsh that : I would say that series like The Wire and The Sopranos are as good as or better than a great deal of Jacobean Tragedy and many contemporary sitcoms are both funnier and wiser than a good deal of 18th and virtually all 19th century comedy. Nothing ages faster than second rate drama.
That said there’s so little Chekhov and Shakespeare on the BBC a these days you begin to wonder what it’s for..

[french frank]

It astonishes me to hear people talking about the amount of drama still available, on Radio 4 or on TV, as though drama were some sort of indeterminate matter and as long as a lump of is available then drama lovers ( whoever they might be) will be quite content.

In BBC-speak, 'drama' has a very wide definition. Everything from soaps to The Archers is 'drama': most is contemporay, written for radio/television. So the rich heritage of theatre is valued on the same metric as classical music: how many people enjoy them compared with the dramatic and musical ephemera of today's here today, gone tomorrow product? It's cut-throat competition with other broadcasters because the BBC has chosen to compete for the same audience and ditch the content which no one else provides.

I feel very heartened by your comments as it gives me hope that there are many more listeners lurking silently and who feel the same way. Every morning I think of a new approach for a letter to the BBC <sigh>, laying out arguments that they will understand, still less have any influence at all.

It never thought the philistines would overrun Radio 3, but that seems to be what has happened.

Nor did I 30 years ago. To rephrase the saying about lunatics: the philistines have taken over the arts world.

[Ianbrowne]

Welcome from me as well.

Was that the Michael Aldridge "Titus Andronicus"? And the 1998 "Divine Words"?
World Service also did a lot of "foreign" plays - sadly, there's little drama there now. There was an excellent 1992 "Blood Wedding" with Juliet Stevenson, Alan Rickman & Anna Massey.

I think the answer is yes to both. Radio 3 introduced me to the work of Conor Macpherson and David Edgar. When I was back in the north I went to see Conor Macpherson's The Weir in Liverpool (and in Buchaest where it was called Barajul). I experienced it first through Drama on 3, and without Radio 3 I probably would never have gone to the theatre to see it. Similarly it was through hearing David Edgar's Pentecost that I took the trouble to go to London to see Daughters of the Revolution.

I find it hard to get satisfaction from reading plays. It's too 'dry'. The exprience of listening is, for me, a very full one, and it allows me to think of the actors as exactly fitting the part. If it hadn't been for Radio 3 I would never have come to appreciate Jacobean drama. When I looked up the actor who played Flamineo in The White Devil, I was disappointed to see a charming attractive leading man of the old school - nothing like the picture he had created in my mind, just through the use of his voice. But that is one of the wonderful things about Radio drama - the actors look exactly how you wish them to appear.

Radio 3 drama has enriched my life immeasurably. But we live in times when a rich cultural life is of little significance. Drama on 3 may have a small initial audience, but if we add those people who listen on Youtube or the Internet Archive I suspect the figures are pretty good.

It astonishes me to hear people talking about the amount of drama still available, on Radio 4 or on TV, as though drama were some sort of indeterminate matter and as long as a lump of is available then drama lovers ( whoever they might be) will be quite content.

It never thought the philistines would overrun Radio 3, but that seems to be what has happened.

[AuntDaisy]

“acting styles were different then “ …..Yep they could act for starters ….

.. .and the voices were easier to tell apart.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Indeed, welcome to the forum, Ian. This was the great disappointment for me too. When the gentle (my opinion) decline of Radio 3 was already taking place there was a brief flowering of European/world classic theatre c. 2000(?). For3 had a meeting with the then controller and the R3 head of speech/drama (Jenny Abramsky), and under her there were great productions of Racine, Calderón, Lope de Vega, Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Goethe, Chekhov, Tennesse Williams &c &c. The irony is that we asked then why they didn't rebroadcast archive material of some of the great productions. The answer was a slightly vague 'acting styles were different then'. So now we're to get a rebroadcast of Hamlet just prior to abandoning the genre altogether. And for what?

“acting styles were different then “ …..Yep they could act for starters ….

[mopsus]

Yes you used to get top-quality thesps as well as world-class plays.

[AuntDaisy]

A lot of the focus seems to be on the potential damage to contemporary dramatists, but speaking as a listener, the real damage is the opportunities listeners have to hear the full range of European drame by people long dead. I grew up in a small northern town and Radio 3 offered the only opportuity I had to experience great drama. At the age of 17 I heard Radio 3's dramatisation of Titus Andronicus and was mesmerised. Ii had no idea the theatre could be so rich and compelling. It would take me an hour to list the plays I have had the opportuity to enjoy in the course of my life. But suffice it to say that most of them are extremely unlikely to be performed in the theatre, and none of them will ever by on TV, Radio 4 or Audible or whatever ersatz "drama" we are told to access to replace Radio 3. I will simply mention, as an example of the opportunities that Radio 3 offered, Divine Words by Ramon del Valle-Inclan, (translated/adaped by David Johnston). If anyone thinks tha a 40 minute drama on Radio 4 of this work is in the offing, they need their head examined. Similarly, it unlikely to appear in any British theatre in the next 50 years. And as for the chance of this featuring as TV drama .... why broadcast something like this when Inspector Morse is available for "drama lovers".

I gave up on BBC news about 2 years ago, after I discovered aljazeera. I have now given up entirely on the BBC. It's Reithian missionis dead in the water. Britain is becoming an island of utter mediocrity where the idea of cultural life being valuable for its own sake is almost unintelligible to most people.

Welcome from me as well.

Was that the Michael Aldridge "Titus Andronicus"? And the 1998 "Divine Words"?
World Service also did a lot of "foreign" plays - sadly, there's little drama there now. There was an excellent 1992 "Blood Wedding" with Juliet Stevenson, Alan Rickman & Anna Massey.

[french frank]

I have now given up entirely on the BBC. It's Reithian missionis dead in the water. Britain is becoming an island of utter mediocrity where the idea of cultural life being valuable for its own sake is almost unintelligible to most people.

Indeed, welcome to the forum, Ian. This was the great disappointment for me too. When the gentle (my opinion) decline of Radio 3 was already taking place there was a brief flowering of European/world classic theatre c. 2000(?). For3 had a meeting with the then controller and the R3 head of speech/drama (Jenny Abramsky), and under her there were great productions of Racine, Calderón, Lope de Vega, Shakespeare, Ben Jonson, Goethe, Chekhov, Tennesse Williams &c &c. The irony is that we asked then why they didn't rebroadcast archive material of some of the great productions. The answer was a slightly vague 'acting styles were different then'. So now we're to get a rebroadcast of Hamlet just prior to abandoning the genre altogether. And for what?

[Serial_Apologist]

A lot of the focus seems to be on the potential damage to contemporary dramatists, but speaking as a listener, the real damage is the opportunities listeners have to hear the full range of European drame by people long dead. I grew up in a small northern town and Radio 3 offered the only opportuity I had to experience great drama. At the age of 17 I heard Radio 3's dramatisation of Titus Andronicus and was mesmerised. Ii had no idea the theatre could be so rich and compelling. It would take me an hour to list the plays I have had the opportuity to enjoy in the course of my life. But suffice it to say that most of them are extremely unlikely to be performed in the theatre, and none of them will ever by on TV, Radio 4 or Audible or whatever ersatz "drama" we are told to access to replace Radio 3. I will simply mention, as an example of the opportunities that Radio 3 offered, Divine Words by Ramon del Valle-Inclan, (translated/adaped by David Johnston). If anyone thinks tha a 40 minute drama on Radio 4 of this work is in the offing, they need their head examined. Similarly, it unlikely to appear in any British theatre in the next 50 years. And as for the chance of this featuring as TV drama .... why broadcast something like this when Inspector Morse is available for "drama lovers".

I gave up on BBC news about 2 years ago, after I discovered aljazeera. I have now given up entirely on the BBC. It's Reithian missionis dead in the water. Britain is becoming an island of utter mediocrity where the idea of cultural life being valuable for its own sake is almost unintelligible to most people.

Welcome to the forum, lanbrowne.

[Ianbrowne]

A lot of the focus seems to be on the potential damage to contemporary dramatists, but speaking as a listener, the real damage is the opportunities listeners have to hear the full range of European drame by people long dead. I grew up in a small northern town and Radio 3 offered the only opportuity I had to experience great drama. At the age of 17 I heard Radio 3's dramatisation of Titus Andronicus and was mesmerised. Ii had no idea the theatre could be so rich and compelling. It would take me an hour to list the plays I have had the opportuity to enjoy in the course of my life. But suffice it to say that most of them are extremely unlikely to be performed in the theatre, and none of them will ever by on TV, Radio 4 or Audible or whatever ersatz "drama" we are told to access to replace Radio 3. I will simply mention, as an example of the opportunities that Radio 3 offered, Divine Words by Ramon del Valle-Inclan, (translated/adaped by David Johnston). If anyone thinks tha a 40 minute drama on Radio 4 of this work is in the offing, they need their head examined. Similarly, it unlikely to appear in any British theatre in the next 50 years. And as for the chance of this featuring as TV drama .... why broadcast something like this when Inspector Morse is available for "drama lovers".

I gave up on BBC news about 2 years ago, after I discovered aljazeera. I have now given up entirely on the BBC. It's Reithian missionis dead in the water. Britain is becoming an island of utter mediocrity where the idea of cultural life being valuable for its own sake is almost unintelligible to most people.

[AuntDaisy]

Drama on 3 is repeating the 1971 Hamlet with Ronald Pickup on 2nd March. Possibly a swansong, but a very welcome repeat...
It's currently in a 3 hour slot and the original was ~8 mins longer than that. Add in Andrea Smith and I suspect a handsaw (or a hawk) may have been at work.

Hamlet

Drama on 3 presents a hidden treasure, a restored archive production of Shakespeare's classic tragedy, unheard since 1971, starring Ronald Pickup and produced by John Tydeman, with a score by Malcolm Clarke of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop.

The play is introduced by Dr Andrea Smith, English lecturer at the University of Suffolk, and author of Shakespeare On The Radio: A Century of BBC Plays.

CAST
Hamlet, son of the late King and nephew to the present King: Ronald Pickup
Claudius, King of Denmark: Robert Lang
Gertrude, Queen of Denmark, Hamlet's Mother: Maxine Audley
Polonius, the Lord Chamberlain: William Squire
Ophelia, Polonius's daughter: Angela Pleasence
Horatio, friend of Hamlet: Martin Jarvis
Marcellus, an officer: Michael Kilgarriff
Ghost of Hamlet's Father: Rolf Lekebvre [typo! Lefebvre]
Laertes, Polonius's son: David Spenser
Rosencrantz: Michael Spice
Guildenstern: Leslie Heritage

This restoration was made possible with help from Keith Wickham at the Radio Circle, and was produced by James Peak at Essential Radio.

It's not unheard, Auntie released it in 1988 (I have the BBC Radio Collection tapes) & in 2016 via Audible.
Keith does a lot of radio restoration and is part of the Radio Circle.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00288rj

[Serial_Apologist]

It reminds me of Carrie in 'King of Queens' (frequently repeated on Channel 4).

'The Home of Classical Music. Why would they say that if it wasn't true?'

In order to contravene the Trades Description Act and get away with it.