Drama to be eradicated from Radio 3

[french frank]

I don't see how anybody can assert that there's LESS classical music being broadcast. The problem is surely that, the more of it there is, the more likely it is that some of it will upset somebody.

Given, in the case of some purists, one might say it depends what you mean by 'classical', I think few would bother to claim there was "less" of it. It's the presentation that's the problem (and not automatically the presenters). Fewer full symphonies played, more bits of symphonies; more presenter-led magazine-type snippets programmes, fewer subject-focused programmes; nominally 'classical' programmes, punctuated with anything someone might call 'music', classical or otherwise; more Classic FM-type warhorses (Overture to Candide, The Lark Ascending, Dvořák Slavonic Dances in one form or another, all played on average twice a month in the last year).

But a major disagreement (and I'd claim to be in a minority here!) is whether Radio 3 should just broadcast the music with little or no critical comment, analysis or discussion programming. Music education isn't just a question of 'Here's a composer/piece of music you haven't heard before and here's one relevant factoid'. Some people will say there's too much chat/speech content. I would say that it depends what is said: chummy presenter chat - No, musicological information - Yes.

[Serial_Apologist]

I'd previously recorded the Brahms on my TV's hard disc.
I don't see how anybody can assert that there's LESS classical music being broadcast. The problem is surely that, the more of it there is, the more likely it is that some of it will upset somebody.

So, only present it in bits at the most so that they can take classical music in? I'm trying to think of an equivalent for a broadcasting channel specialising in other interests: a programme on Victorian architecture which showed you Tower Bridge, but only one end of it, so that one got no real idea of what "Victorian architectural style" was about - there were so many; or a programme about paintings in which we were only to be shown a corner of a painting by (name any artist), then another corner by somebody else; or a programme on meteorology which illustrated only one type of cloud to demonstrate atmospheric condensation, probably without explaining the function and development of that type of cloud in atmospheric circulation. Who would want to know about boring old stratus for instance? One could go on forever dreaming up mean-minded schemes for presenting knowledge in this minimalised selective and decontextualising way to help nurture the unholistic mindsets those selling ideas and product need to screen the mobile phone addict from understanding complexities and wider consequences.

[Master Jacques]

R3's increasingly accurate impersonation of Classic FM will probably bolster the argument of those who wish to abolish, or make voluntary, the licence fee. Why pay for one service and not the other when the two are largely indistinguishable? If Classic FM and R3's daytime output consists of classical extracts divided by the aural dead space of trailers or adverts, what's the difference? One might posit that Classic FM is more efficient than R3 because it urges its listeners to "relax" with chopped-up music on just the one channel.

Quite so, in all respects. Radio 3's current direction of travel (its "offer" to listeners, ads and all) is a self-defeating counsel of despair. It is left to performers and listeners to point this out to the corporate suits, too busy negotiating their "pension benefits" and bonuses to lift a single finger to put things right.

Here's a repeat notice of Richard Eyre's interview with Roger Bolton, a URL I found on this Forum:

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/sir-richard-eyre-theatre-and-film-director-and-former/id1646974353?i=1000680627599

[Hitch]

R3's increasingly accurate impersonation of Classic FM will probably bolster the argument of those who wish to abolish, or make voluntary, the licence fee. Why pay for one service and not the other when the two are largely indistinguishable? If Classic FM and R3's daytime output consists of classical extracts divided by the aural dead space of trailers or adverts, what's the difference? One might posit that Classic FM is more efficient than R3 because it urges its listeners to "relax" with chopped-up music on just the one channel.

[LMcD]

You've slightly misunderstood, I think. The Martinu was in the evening concert, so was part of what Mac's listening included as well as Night Tracks. Not sure when the Brahms was played.

I'd previously recorded the Brahms on my TV's hard disc.
I don't see how anybody can assert that there's LESS classical music being broadcast. The problem is surely that, the more of it there is, the more likely it is that some of it will upset somebody.

[Master Jacques]

The “problem” is that so many people who like a bit of classical music don’t want to sit through extended works any more . Even on this forum there are plenty who don’t much like Bruckner or even Mahler. So scheduling any of these works is high risk.

and as for Janacek - CLV being Rattles favourite work - well there are dozen of unsold seats for Jenufa at Covent Garden - the cheapest in the stalls being a mere £90 - half the price of some West End Musicals. It is sensationally well sung. I honestly think they couldn’t give tickets away for a 20th century masterpiece.

Reading Priestley's post-war novels (as I am just now) it's clear that the proportion of people willing to sit through radio performances of extended works won't have changed much since the 1940s. The difference lies in BBC Radio and TV's changed focus, as they strive to please majority tastes for as much daytime viewing and listening as they can get away with, under their charter. They are frightened of offering broader perspectives. The idea that small audiences represent "high risk" programming goes along with this new - and entirely inappropriate - commercial nexus. Massaged, high audience figures don't earn BBC any more licence money.

"A mere £90" - the lowest stall price for Royal Opera offerings this season - will still sound far too much to many people, quite rightly so. And while there is competition for astronomically-priced West End musicals and Premiere League football matches, there is soon going to be no competition in London for professional opera at all. So Covent Garden will continue to be priced exclusively.

With public subsidy trailing increasingly far beneath European levels, governments since the 1970s have pretty much guaranteed the false perception of opera as an exclusive and elitist frippery. Perhaps it might have been easier to sell tickets (more cheaply) if they'd performed Jenufa in the vernacular - as at its hugely-successful 1956 house premiere under Kubelik, with an English-speaking cast including Amy Shuard, Sylvia Fisher, Edith Coates,Joan Carlyle, John Lanigan, Otakar Kraus, Edgar Evans, Josephine Veasey, Michael Langdon and Marie Collier. Quite a line-up!

And of course, back then in the "bad old days", 'The House' had constant, vibrant competition from Sadler's Wells Opera throughout the year, to keep artistic standards high and prices relatively affordable for everyone who fancied giving it a go.

[Master Jacques]

Today's Times letter: I'm not sure that the author is correct though in blaming the decrease in the amount of classical music played on drama, jazz, global music, and essays!

Perhaps Dr Paul Heaton was referring to "classical music" in its correct sense, i.e. music from the era of Haydn, Mozart and Beethoven. It's possibly true, that there's less of this around Radio 3 proportionally than there was 30 years ago, though the quantity - if we add in the night-time broadcasts - may not have changed much. As others have said, it's the quality of the programming which is the issue for Radio 3, and the increasing lack of diversity (in the full rather than political sense) in its output.

Laughing stock? I'm inclined to stick by my phrase, given the clout of the groups I've outlined which do laugh at Radio 3, and the station's cowed ethos. What is beyond argument, is that Radio 3 is no longer part of the "national conversation", nor providing a significant voice in our country's cultural life for living composers.

[oddoneout]

Over thirty years, the introduction of Through the Night alone surely increases by a significant amount the sheer quantity of classical music played.

And before that , I well recall Radio 3 began at 8 am on Saturdays and 9 am. on Sundays, while Saturday afternoons were given over to sport and 'Test Match Special' took up several days every year. So I'd question Dr. Heaton's claim about the amount of classical music .

Where there is cause for complaint, of course, as we have frequently discussed here, is in the quality of the broadcasts, with the chance to hear a complete classical work of any length restricted to only a short part of each day ( usually 1 to 2 pm, 3 pm and 7.30 -10 pm. apart from TTN.) . This makes a mockery of Sam Jacksons denial of 'dumbing-down'. It's the creeping growth of snippets, trailers and chat taking over more of the day which proves this. In the 1970s R3 was all complete works, as has been illustrated .

I would rather have fewer hours of output if it was of the quality of what I consider the R3 output should be. I am reminded of that old (1980s ?) RT page that AuntD posted a while back which was one day's R3 programmes. In that one day there was more music, as they were complete works, than I would find now to listen to in a whole week's schedules.
I can't help feeling that the existence of TTN is, now, the reason that it is considered OK to reduce the daytime output to chat'n'bits. Those tiresome folk who want long(aka boring, too difficult - the aural equivalent of TLDR) pieces of music, without the cuddly presenter input can get them on TTN - and stuff access to quality on linear radio.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Over thirty years, the introduction of Through the Night alone surely increases by a significant amount the sheer quantity of classical music played.

And before that , I well recall Radio 3 began at 8 am on Saturdays and 9 am. on Sundays, while Saturday afternoons were given over to sport and 'Test Match Special' took up several days every year. So I'd question Dr. Heaton's claim about the amount of classical music .

Where there is cause for complaint, of course, as we have frequently discussed here, is in the quality of the broadcasts, with the chance to hear a complete classical work of any length restricted to only a short part of each day ( usually 1 to 2 pm, 3 pm and 7.30 -10 pm. apart from TTN.) . This makes a mockery of Sam Jacksons denial of 'dumbing-down'. It's the creeping growth of snippets, trailers and chat taking over more of the day which proves this. In the 1970s R3 was all complete works, as has been illustrated .

Fair summary Smittims. There probably more classical music than ever before but fewer whole works and those tend to be transmitted to at peripheral times - evening and indeed overnight.

”Laughing stock “ is far too strong a phrase. It undermines otherwise valid arguments . Like LMcD I enjoyed the BBC NOW In concert on Tuesday which included the Martinu. Monday had an excellent Rattle LSO concert as well as a Wigmore lunchtime with the Julliard doing Beethoven Op. 130 . Last weeks highlights include the Cunning Little Vixen , a Dudamel Mahler 3 and a Mahler Symphony from Rattle. And that was a pretty average week. Oh and a Bruckner 9 on Monday I’ve yet to catch up with.

The “problem” is that so many people who like a bit of classical music don’t want to sit through extended works any more . Even on this forum there are plenty who don’t much like Bruckner or even Mahler. So scheduling any of these works is high risk.

and as for Janacek - CLV being Rattles favourite work - well there are dozen of unsold seats for Jenufa at Covent Garden - the cheapest in the stalls being a mere £90 - half the price of some West End Musicals. It is sensationally well sung. I honestly think they couldn’t give tickets away for a 20th century masterpiece.

[french frank]

Today's Times letter: I'm not sure that the author is correct though in blaming the decrease in the amount of classical music played on drama, jazz, global music, and essays!

You can say that again! It's as if someone only tuned in at 3pm on a Wednesday and complained that there's too much religious broadcasting on R3. Incidentally, 30 years ago, 1995, would coincide with the controllership of Nicholas Kenyon which is when the "dumbing down" complaints started. Pity that letters like this get published when they are factually inaccurate since most people won't realise the letter-writer is talking nonsense.

If he'd complained that the full-length classical works had been drastically reduced and short works were punctuated, every 6 minutes or so by presenter chat, he'd have a point. But then he might love Essential Classics ...

[smittims]

Over thirty years, the introduction of Through the Night alone surely increases by a significant amount the sheer quantity of classical music played.

And before that , I well recall Radio 3 began at 8 am on Saturdays and 9 am. on Sundays, while Saturday afternoons were given over to sport and 'Test Match Special' took up several days every year. So I'd question Dr. Heaton's claim about the amount of classical music .

Where there is cause for complaint, of course, as we have frequently discussed here, is in the quality of the broadcasts, with the chance to hear a complete classical work of any length restricted to only a short part of each day ( usually 1 to 2 pm, 3 pm and 7.30 -10 pm. apart from TTN.) . This makes a mockery of Sam Jacksons denial of 'dumbing-down'. It's the creeping growth of snippets, trailers and chat taking over more of the day which proves this. In the 1970s R3 was all complete works, as has been illustrated .

[Pulcinella]

Today's Times letter: I'm not sure that the author is correct though in blaming the decrease in the amount of classical music played on drama, jazz, global music, and essays!

Demise of Radio 3

Sir, Unlike James Rorison (letter, Jan 20) I would be delighted for drama, jazz, global music and essays to disappear from Radio 3. I have been listening to the station for more than 30 years and have witnessed a relentless reduction in the amount of classical music being played.
Dr Paul Heaton
Sherborne, Dorset

[Pulcinella]

I don't think it's an exaggeration to call it a laughing stock. Between the popular element (judging from Radio 4 comedy shows) who still mock it as a ridiculous pseuds' corner; the mandarin element, who mock its ambitions to outdo Classic FM for playlist inanity; and its formerly loyal listeners, who deplore its narrowed range, now drama, discussion and high-end arts features have all disappeared; that doesn't leave many to confidently support this failing channel.

Should you have to wait until Night Tracks (22:00-23.30, so only 1.5 hours at bedtime) to hear a Martinu Cello Concerto, and a Brahms Piano Trio? Neither of them are mentioned on tonight's playlist, as far as I can see, so you couldn't even plan for it. That, in itself, is laughable for any channel, let alone one which we're told is a "jewel in the BBC crown".

You've slightly misunderstood, I think. The Martinu was in the evening concert, so was part of what Mac's listening included as well as Night Tracks. Not sure when the Brahms was played.

[Master Jacques]

'A national laughing stock' - really?
Thanks to the BBC, my musical menu today has included Night Tracks, to which I'm currently relaxing - yes I know - a cello concerto by Martinu and the Brahms piano trio that was a highlight of this year's Proms. I may not listen to Radio 3 as often as I did, but I wouldn't say I was apathetic.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to call it a laughing stock. Between the popular element (judging from Radio 4 comedy shows) who still mock it as a ridiculous pseuds' corner; the mandarin element, who mock its ambitions to outdo Classic FM for playlist inanity; and its formerly loyal listeners, who deplore its narrowed range, now drama, discussion and high-end arts features have all disappeared; that doesn't leave many to confidently support this failing channel.

Should you have to wait until Night Tracks (22:00-23.30, so only 1.5 hours at bedtime) to hear a Martinu Cello Concerto, and a Brahms Piano Trio? Neither of them are mentioned on tonight's playlist, as far as I can see, so you couldn't even plan for it. That, in itself, is laughable for any channel, let alone one which we're told is a "jewel in the BBC crown".

[LMcD]

That's precisely what The Suits rely on: the smokescreen of other national priorities allows them to play ducks and drakes with Radio 3 (and Radio 4) without causing too much outside indignation, except for a few people they can ridicule as "elitists", "luvvies" and old-school intellectuals. There's a lot wrong with our society, but this is one area where we really must do our best to hold the line. If we don't, who will?

When Radio 3, "the home of classical", has become a national laughing stock (as it has) we really have to keep pressing home this uncomfortable truth, at least on behalf of the poor saps who are still trying to make the wretched thing work, from the inside. They're the ones I feel most sorry for.

'A national laughing stock' - really?
Thanks to the BBC, my musical menu today has included Night Tracks, to which I'm currently relaxing - yes I know - a cello concerto by Martinu and the Brahms piano trio that was a highlight of this year's Proms. I may not listen to Radio 3 as often as I did, but I wouldn't say I was apathetic.