Radio 3 schedule changes (‘edging away from speech')

[Ein Heldenleben]

I'm not into conspiracy theories, but I remember the previous controller of R3 receiving a backlash when he said in an interview (o, foolish man!) that people were now 'less well educated'. Outrage! In context he meant that few people now had the experience of being brought up with classical music as a more widely accepted, ever-present cultural background. In that he was clearly right. He may also have been 'right' - if he had intended to say it - that education tends now to be wider and more superficial. Younger people know more about a lot of things that didn't figure in our education; but not a lot about it. Perhaps.

The only subject I can speak with any authority about is English Lit .I was quite surprised when I read some recent A level papers to see how demanding some of the questions were - particularly those requiring very detailed knowledge of a Shakespeare play - however some of the other texts seemed relatively easy.

On O level music 50 years ago there was quite a bit of completing a four part Chorale say 24 bars or so with only the first few bars harmonised . That completion included a modulation. GCSE music is I’m told much less demanding than that . I’m not sure you even need to do that sort of part filling even at A level these days.

There is quite a lot of choosing soft subjects at GCSE and avoiding harder ones esp Modern Languages. The teaching of those seems to be in a state of collapse as indeed is music and to a lesser extent Eng Lit esp at A level. It’s not just classical music that’s dying so are large swathes of the liberal humanities with incalculable consequences for our culture . Though in the production of TikTok videos we are truly world beating.

[smittims]

Co-incidentally a woman on Woman's Hour this morning emphasised the importance of maths in contemporary life . I think the availablity of electronic calculators has made us lazy and 'de-skilled' in this respect. Many years ago I worked with some people who had been employed in the old National Savings Bank in Dulwich (they called it 'the benk'). Their mental arithmetic ability was phenomenal. And regarding clasical music , one thinks of the number of popular cinema films in the late '40s and early '50s which featured classical music : not just Dangerous Moonlight and Brief Encounter, but While I Live and Trent's Last Case, where classical music actually plays a part, and where the audience could be relied upon to know what it was about.

'Knowing' something doesn't just mean being able to look it up on a smartphone.

[Belgrove]

Co-incidentally a woman on Woman's Hour this morning emphasised the importance of maths in contemporary life . I think the availablity of electronic calculators has made us lazy and 'de-skilled' in this respect. Many years ago I worked with some people who had been employed in the old National Savings Bank in Dulwich (they called it 'the benk'). Their mental arithmetic ability was phenomenal…

There’s the frequent muddling of mathematics with arithmetic here.

Arithmetic proficiency was better in the past primarily because of the absurd systems we had for money, weights and measures etc. These required having to change bases frequently, aided by pocket ready reckoners and tables. Darts players are superb at arithmetic, but it is a task specific skill, a kind of muscle memory, knowing what combinations enable a good finish.

Mathematics by contrast is an abstract discipline, primarily concerned with pattern, space and logic (of which arithmetic is but a vanishingly small part). That abstraction is seen as a barrier primarily because of the ‘language’ that is used to explore it. This is due to way it’s taught, a set of rules that must be learned, divorced of reason or rationale, before one can start to explore and do interesting stuff with it. That mathematics is so applicable is likely due to the underlying structure(s) of the universe and all its contents, even if we have only scratched the surface of what those structures may be.

[french frank]

There’s the frequent muddling of mathematics with arithmetic here.

I agree re maths and arithmetic (sums). Mental arithmetic was taught in primary schools (6d for a fourpenny bus ticket meant tuppence change).

I thought this 'new' set theory started children off with maths at an early age? I bought a book about it once.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I agree re maths and arithmetic (sums). Mental arithmetic was taught in primary schools (6d for a fourpenny bus ticket meant tuppence change).

I thought this 'new' set theory started children off with maths at an early age? I bought a book about it once.

Set theory was around in the sixties as were matrices , and different base numbers.
I literally went from a primary school were you had to divide 21s and 6d by 2s and 8d to a grammar where had to multiply 1021 base 3 by 1211 .
and if you tell that to young ‘uns now they just don’t believe you…eee’ we had it rough.

[vinteuil]

Set theory was around in the sixties as were matrices , and different base numbers.
I literally went from a primary school were you had to divide 21s and 6d by 2s and 8d to a grammar where had to multiply 1021 base 3 by 1211 .
and if you tell that to young ‘uns now they just don’t believe you…eee’ we had it rough.

... eeeh, wightman's tables anyone?

And yep, even in deepest Wiltshire our maths master was doing topology with us in the 1960s (and we didn't complain to the authorities, neither... )

.

[AuntDaisy]

Music Map - "Sara Mohr-Pietsch explores classical pieces in the context of their history, legacy and connections to other works".
Starts Sunday 7th April - can't find any more information. (Unless it's related to this CBBC quiz).

Could it be an improved Listening Service?

[Serial_Apologist]

Music Map - "Sara Mohr-Pietsch explores classical pieces in the context of their history, legacy and connections to other works".
Starts Sunday 7th April - can't find any more information. (Unless it's related to this CBBC quiz).

Could it be an improved Listening Service?

Now that's more like it! - one hopes...

[Roslynmuse]

Irony not dead? Or? Letter in this week's Radio Times:

3's A MAGIC NUMBER

"Goodbye Classic FM. The improvement in standards at Radio 3 has been absolutely amazing and I shall never again need to listen to Classic FM overnight. Radio 3 is magical."

Or has he just discovered TTN?

I saw that today, and thought that it was an insider job but premature - the schedule (and content) changes don't kick in for a few weeks yet.

[smittims]

Thanks for your #273, Belgrove; I found that interesting and informative. I remember someone who was very good at maths telling me he believed maths was an art rather than a science. Food for thought there, maybe!

I did maths and what was called 'pure maths and statistics' to 'o' level in the 1960s and hated them, I'm sorry to say, having apparently no aptitude for them. But I've always been passionate about music, so I'm baffled by the occsaional remark I hear that Maths and music are closely connected. I've never noticed that. Yes, of course, counting, and proportion, such as the golden section and the Fibonacci sequence (as in Bartok and La Mer) have been used in composition, but no more so than on so many other walks of life. I've never heard it said that maths is important in painting, but for some reason some people thinkit is essential in music.

[Sir Velo]

I've never heard it said that maths is important in painting, but for some reason some people thinkit is essential in music.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.virtualartacademy.com/golden-ratio-in-art/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjBroiQ6fWEAxX5XUEAHQvBCy0QFnoECAIQBg&usg=AOvVaw3KUFbZ6F2uc2SK2Npmfpld

[Belgrove]

…I've never heard it said that maths is important in painting…

The discovery of perspective during the Renaissance has had a lasting effect on figurative painting. And perspective is what obtains from the geometry of the flat space in which we live. Islamic art, which prohibits the figurative, nevertheless discovered how space can be tessellated or tiled to create beautiful repetitive patterns that display different symmetries. Escher’s creation ‘Angels and Demons’ places those symmetries in ‘hyperbolic’ rather than flat space, and captures the perspective to be seen in the large scale structure of the universe in a striking way. Pollack’s ‘drip paintings’ are examples of fractal geometry, the geometry of natural structures within space - clouds, trees, vegetables! (although I doubt he would have known nor cared). Maths has a habit of popping up where one least expects it.

[AHR]

I see that 'Private Eye' refers to 'Radio 3's stuffiness' in the 15th-28th March edition. Where have they been all these years?

[french frank]

I see that 'Private Eye' refers to 'Radio 3's stuffiness' in the 15th-28th March edition. Where have they been all these years?

Context? That doesn't sound like Lunchtime O'Boulez. Or other PE contributors.

[gurnemanz]

Context? That doesn't sound like Lunchtime O'Boulez. Or other PE contributors.

It wasn't Lunchtime but a piece entitled 'Panic Stations' which commented on cuts at Scala Radio. It was to help characterise that station for those who don't know it (eg me) as being "a halfway between Radio 3's stuffiness and the weapons-grade schmaltz of Classic FM."

On the same page Lunchtime has a piece on Sam Jackson's plan. It starts off by referring to a cello concert where Steven Isserlis launched an off-script attack on the poor quality of Radio 3 presenters. "The audience applause suggested many agreed."