Churchill commemoration

[Mary Chambers]

I recall that time very well, but not happily. I was in my first job, in Edinburgh, where I knew nobody. I was cold, lonely and miserable. My great escape was the radio, mainly Radio 4/Home Service (no television), and as I remember it the radio was completely dominated by Churchill's death and funeral for a fortnight. I was furious. I had never been an admirer, so as far as I was concerned there was nothing to listen to. I'm sure this can't be literally true, but it's how it felt.

I avoided it then, and I'm avoiding it now.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I avoided it then, and I'm avoiding it now.

Me too. I found the commentary sycophantic then, and it's the same now. It's possible to be respectful without going too far.

[VodkaDilc]

One memory for me is the complete performance of Beethoven 5 on the radio, just after his death was announced. It was the first time I'd heard the symphony complete.

The replay of the funeral coverage was fascinating. Very little musical content in the service, apart from the hymns; a fussy A&M-type arrangement of "Mine eyes have seen the glory"; just a simple organ arrangement of Dead March in Saul as the coffin was taken up at the end; and the fact that, at the end of the boat trip, the coffin was taken through the QEH building site.

As expected, Richard Dimbleby's commentary was dignified and he was not afraid of silences. The diction seemed to be from another era, though I can't recall him seeming posh at the time. ("And now the great men's body passes through the Strend", etc.) But even he could not resist chatting through part of the Purcell Funeral Sentences.

Another amazing thing was seeing the great figures from the past: Attlee, Macmillan, Eden, Menzies - and perhaps wondering about how their present-day successors would apppear as mere shadows alongside them.

[Stillhomewardbound]

I watched much of the 'live' broadcast of the funeral on the Parliament channel and found it fascinating. The scale of it was phenomenal and a grand throwback to the loftiest days of empire.

I think it was richly deserved. There was no doubt that he was so often 'hit and miss' both in his war and his political career, but he so firmly embodied the spirit of the trials and tribulations and the battle for victory in those times. His mantra 'action today' which so maddened his staff and CIGS no doubt helped maintain a fire within the engine of war.

(While not on the same scale, that Thatcher received such an honour stills rankles with me today.)

It was on BBC iPlayer but I can't see it now, but it is on their archive section in four slots:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/churchill/11023.shtml

Meanwhile, I found that Paxman's documentary cast about as much illumination as an Ikea nightlight. He was a good interrogator in his Newsnight years but I don't think he has the kind of bite and sense of poetry that was there for the likes of Alastair Cooke, Bronowski or a James Cameron.

It did throw up an interesting point of detail though that whereas the funeral had been some seven years in the planning, the bearer party were in the dark about the fact that they were going to be carrying a lead-lined casket and at times it was visibly a huge struggle. Coping with the incredibly difficult steps at St.Paul's, twice, and then the long walk down to the Havengore and negotiating the pier bridge et al.

A dramatic feat, indeed.

[Petrushka]

I watched my recording of the complete broadcast last night (I stayed with it until nearly 3am!) and was seeing it thus for the first time in 50 years when I saw it live as a 10 year old. What was so fascinating to me now was to see how London looked in 1965. The area around St Paul's has changed beyond recognition. On the broadcast parts of the City looked ghostly, even spooky.

I hope it's issued as a commercial DVD and there for future generations to watch.

[Barbirollians]

I trust that they will give as much airtime to the 50th anniversary of Attlee's death in 2017 .

[Nick Armstrong]

I watched my recording of the complete broadcast last night (I stayed with it until nearly 3am!) and was seeing it thus for the first time in 50 years when I saw it live as a 10 year old. What was so fascinating to me now was to see how London looked in 1965. The area around St Paul's has changed beyond recognition. On the broadcast parts of the City looked ghostly, even spooky.

Pet was the broadcast shown the black and white footage?

Because although I take the points upthread about the Paxman programme, what I found truly fascinating was the colour footage - whether it had been restored etc I don't know, but it was simply breathtaking on the big HD screen. It was almost equal in quality to footage that could have been shot yesterday - until one saw de Gaulle, or a 16 year old Nicholas Soames, or Macmillan... THAT was spooky. And - as you say - the streets. The procession route is so familiar to me from 1000s of cycle rides - I watched twice to spot familiar buildings, the cafés and shops then and now...

[Petrushka]

Pet was the broadcast shown the black and white footage?

Because although I take the points upthread about the Paxman programme, what I found truly fascinating was the colour footage - whether it had been restored etc I don't know, but it was simply breathtaking on the big HD screen. It was almost equal in quality to footage that could have been shot yesterday - until one saw de Gaulle, or a 16 year old Nicholas Soames, or Macmillan... THAT was spooky. And - as you say - the streets. The procession route is so familiar to me from 1000s of cycle rides - I watched twice to spot familiar buildings, the cafés and shops then and now...

I watched the original BBC broadcast from 1965 with commentary by Richard Dimbleby which was shown in its entirety on Friday on BBC Parliament and recorded it to my hard drive - all 4 hours 20 minutes of it and all in real time. The colour footage on the Paxman programme was filmed by British Pathe, though I had a sneaking suspicion that some might have been 'colorised'. Any comment from anyone on this? The colour film really did bring London to life but that black and white broadcast belongs to another era and it may have been the winter light that made London look so ghostly, particularly after the St Paul's service and the procession to Tower Pier. Does anyone know if that rickety bridge is still there?

[Stillhomewardbound]

was filmed by British Pathe, though I had a sneaking suspicion that some might have been 'colorised'.

Probably not. It was 1965 after all and colour stock was many years in existence and Pathe colour reels of that era were very good.

Regarding how different London looks, it is a reminder of the long gap between the end of the war and the number of years (the best of two decades) that passed before the economy had improved sufficiently for considerable swathes of the bomb damaged city to be reclaimed.

[Flosshilde]

I caught a brief clip from Cameron's speech, in which he quoted Churchill as saying something along the lines of 'you can tell the quality of a country by the way it treats its poor etc', & then dismissed that & said he thought Churchill's greatest quality was something or other that I can't remember. My jaw dropped at Cameron's sheer brass neck.

[Karafan]

I caught a brief clip from Cameron's speech, in which he quoted Churchill as saying something along the lines of 'you can tell the quality of a country by the way it treats its poor etc', & then dismissed that & said he thought Churchill's greatest quality was something or other that I can't remember. My jaw dropped at Cameron's sheer brass neck.

I find this reaction afflicts me often when our shiny-faced PM attempts to smother himself in the mantle of past greatness. The flesh crawls.

PS Re the Pathe footage - a missed opportunity that they did not broadcast this in its entirety after the B&W relay - it was extraordinarily vivid in HD. Viewable on YT here in lesser quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1WEdgXKEI

(Some quirkily odd outtakes of Churchill behind the carapace raised a wry smile in Karafan Towers....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYyq__nwrA4)

[Barbirollians]

I find this reaction afflicts me often when our shiny-faced PM attempts to smother himself in the mantle of past greatness. The flesh crawls.

PS Re the Pathe footage - a missed opportunity that they did not broadcast this in its entirety after the B&W relay - it was extraordinarily vivid in HD. Viewable on YT here in lesser quality https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1WEdgXKEI

(Some quirkily odd outtakes of Churchill behind the carapace raised a wry smile in Karafan Towers....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYyq__nwrA4)

Churchill would be on the far left of the current Tory party - in fact i imagine he might be a Lib Dem as he was of course once a Liberal .

[Flosshilde]

And very pro-Europe.

[aeolium]

For the benefit of richardfinegold and anyone else unable to view on the BBC i-player, the Vernon Bogdanor lecture on the legacy of Churchill is available on the Gresham College website. I watched it on i-player and thought it very good.

http://www.gresham.ac.uk/lectures-and-events/the-legacy-of-winston-churchill

[jean]

I just finished the book Explaining Hitler, by Ron Rosenbaum. he draws a not very pretty picture of Claude Landsman, the Director of Shoah.

In what way? I know nothing about Landesmann apart from Shoah.