Churchill commemoration

[richardfinegold]

I think Churchill's defenders protest too much. He did really have some unpleasant views (though often, as with his support for eugenics, these were quite widely held and intellectually respectable at the time), and some of his behaviour and policies were indefensible imv. The article could also have mentioned his strident imperialism which I think dominated his ideas about foreign policy right up to the end of his life when few even in his own party were defending it, and his strident anti-Bolshevism which e.g. led him to propose active intervention on the side of the White Russians in the civil war in Russia after 1918 (another controversy not mentioned in the article). If it had not been for the rise of Hitler and the Second World War, Churchill's political career would have been an ignominious one indeed.

Agreed. Is that why he was voted out of office before the ink was dry on the German signature of surrender.

[Barbirollians]

Agreed. Is that why he was voted out of office before the ink was dry on the German signature of surrender.

No - in reality by the end of the Second World War the population was not willing to go back to the inequalities of the 1930s also Attlee had been Deputy PM and pretty much running domestic government whilst Churchill ran the War. Hence , the Labour landslide .

Churchill was an extremely flawed figure yet cometh the moment cometh the man . If one considers his political history one can see why so many Tories were against him becoming PM but had he not the world would surely be a very different and much worse place for Halifax would have sued for peace .

[ardcarp]

Has anyone being listening to the short talks by David Cannadine on R4 ? They are entitled 'Churchill's Other Lives'. They are fascinating and by no means an all-glowing account.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00zgqdl

BTW, I too remember well the day of the State Funeral. It was my very last shot at bell-ringing, where our tower did a half-muffled quarter peal of Grandsire Doubles. It's not as clever as it sounds 'cos I was on the tenor (bell-ringers will know what I'm talking about). But it's stuck in my memory.

[Frances_iom]

One of the set books for English (Literature?) O-level many years ago was Churchill's "My early life" - it gave me at the time a lasting distaste for Churchill and his supporters which has lasted now for over 50 years (possibly this was the reason for the choice as his views were significantly at odds with the ethos of the Catholic school), tho I acknowledge he was a significant player in WW2.

[aeolium]

Slightly off-topic, but I watched last night a programme about the 1945 documentary film "Night Will Fall", about the concentration camps with footage of the camps just after they had been liberated. It was fascinating and also extremely moving. The film, which was overseen by Sydney Bernstein with directorial contribution by Alfred Hitchcock and a script by Richard Crossman, was never completed or shown because it encountered resistance from the political establishment which wanted to move the agenda away from the crimes of the past and towards the rehabilitation of Germany. It has I think recently been completed by film producers at the Imperial War Museum and I for one would be very interested to see it.

To see the documentary is to understand why (imv) no present-day attempt, on film or TV, to give an idea of the horrors of that time can succeed and why nothing can match the power of the images from the period.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/holocaust-night-will-fall

[richardfinegold]

Slightly off-topic, but I watched last night a programme about the 1945 documentary film "Night Will Fall", about the concentration camps with footage of the camps just after they had been liberated. It was fascinating and also extremely moving. The film, which was overseen by Sydney Bernstein with directorial contribution by Alfred Hitchcock and a script by Richard Crossman, was never completed or shown because it encountered resistance from the political establishment which wanted to move the agenda away from the crimes of the past and towards the rehabilitation of Germany. It has I think recently been completed by film producers at the Imperial War Museum and I for one would be very interested to see it.

To see the documentary is to understand why (imv) no present-day attempt, on film or TV, to give an idea of the horrors of that time can succeed and why nothing can match the power of the images from the period.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/h...ight-will-fall

I couldn't open the link on my iPod. Apparently you need a not free App. Thanks for the information and I will seek other means to view it.

[Anna]

To see the documentary is to understand why (imv) no present-day attempt, on film or TV, to give an idea of the horrors of that time can succeed and why nothing can match the power of the images from the period.
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/h...ight-will-fall

Yes, should be compulsory viewing and very interesting re Churchill and how much the Allies really knew about the camps.

Just too keep ontopic: There was an item about how the cranes on the banks were all lowered in unison as a mark of respect during the funeral. In fact it seems the dockers didn't want to participate at all and had to be paid to do this.

[aeolium]

I couldn't open the link on my iPod. Apparently you need a not free App. Thanks for the information and I will seek other means to view it.

Are you able to see HBO, rfg?

http://realscreen.com/2014/11/26/hbo-arte-c4-to-air-holocaust-doc-night-will-fall/

[richardfinegold]

Are you able to see HBO, rfg?

http://realscreen.com/2014/11/26/hbo...ght-will-fall/

No, I just canceled the Cable TV service that carries it. I will look for other outlets.
I was struck by the accounts that I have read of Churchill's reactions to the destruction in Germany from the Air Campaign when he viewed it firsthand during the Potsdam Conference, and by the way that he distanced himself from Sir Arthur Harris at that time. After so wholeheartedly endorsing the Air Campaign and devoting so many resources--and British lives to it's prosecution, do we take his reaction as a type of hypocrisy, or as a thoughtful reflection, or both?

[mercia]

there's a version of Night Will Fall called Memory of the Camps on youtube, that's to say, using the same footage. I watched the Channel 4 programme last night and am wondering if I will be able to stomach the four+ hours of Shoah this evening.

[Anna]

there's a version of Night Will Fall called Memory of the Camps on youtube, that's to say, using the same footage. I watched the Channel 4 programme last night and am wondering if I will be able to stomach the four+ hours of Shoah this evening.

Did you see the programme (although it was a repeat) which followed on More4 called The Hidden History of Auschwitz and the docudrama The Eichmann Show? I intend to at least see some of Shoah.

[richardfinegold]

Did you see the programme (although it was a repeat) which followed on More4 called The Hidden History of Auschwitz and the docudrama The Eichmann Show? I intend to at least see some of Shoah.

I just finished the book Explaining Hitler, by Ron Rosenbaum. he draws a not very pretty picture of Claude Landsman, the Director of Shoah.

[Anna]

No, I just canceled the Cable TV service that carries it. I will look for other outlets.

Here's a brief cut and pasted and not very informative list of the countries/channels broadcasting it (but not all on the same date) Perhaps you could view via one of them?

Phoenix TV, China/Philippines/Indonesia/Malaysia/Macau/Singapore; Keshet, Israel 27 Jan, 23.00; Channel 8/Doc Channel, Israel 27, Jan; HBO, USA 26 Jan; Arte, France, 13, Jan; Arte, Germany, 13 Jan; ARD/ NDR, Germany; DR, Denmark; RAI, Italy; RTP, Portugal; Globo, Brazil/Ecuador.

[Petrushka]

I recorded the re-broadcast of the Churchill funeral on BBC Parliament and just watched a snippet in advance of watching all of it later.

The funeral holds special memories for me as it was the first solid memory I have of a major national event and I've never forgotten it. I still have the Radio Times supplement as illustrated on pages 11, 12, 13 and 103 of the current edition of Radio Times as well as the newspapers of the time. My lifelong enthusiasm for the history of the Second World War started on that day. Indeed, I had Churchill's history of that conflict the following Christmas and I find it astonishing now that I read it at the age of 11 & 12 during 1966!

A sobering thought that I now have vivid memories of 50 years ago .

[Serial_Apologist]

Tonight's Channel 4 News took the somewhat impudent line of querying the validity of commemorating a commemoration, ie the funeral. Interviewed, Nicholas Soames, grandson, and not someone I particularly like, deserved some credit for not getting riled at the line of questioning to which he was subjected.

Oddly enough, although I was very much around in 1965, and living and working in London, I don't recall the funeral having much of an impact at the time.