Alan Davey, new controller, R3

[french frank]

And I wonder whether he'll have any influence at all at the wider BBC:

"British opera singer Sarah Brightman has missed the start of the space training which will allow her to travel to the International Space Station. [...]"

[Stanley Stewart]

Thanks, ff. Erm...point taken!

[french frank]

Imo, 10pm (or, better, 10.15pm) on Sunday nights is the best slot of the week for any programme of any genre (except, perhaps, for children's broadcasting) because more people are at home and available to listen with commitment at this time than at any other in the whole week, and with relatively little distraction from children and other family or from random phone calls and unexpected visitors or other callers at this time.

They may be available to listen to radio then, but they don't do so, do they? For Radio 3, Sundays have lower listening than any other day, and listening as a whole drops off after about midday. It is already very low indeed by 9pm.

You may be speaking of your own listening habits.

[Honoured Guest]

They may be available to listen to radio then, but they don't do so, do they? For Radio 3, Sundays have lower listening than any other day, and listening as a whole drops off after about midday. It is already very low indeed by 9pm.

You may be speaking of your own listening habits.

Yes, I was specifically talking about availability to listen, and specifically not talking about either actual listening statistics or about my own listening habits. As you say, they are different things, although sometimes confused.

My personal view is that programmes are best broadcast at times when there is most opportunity for interested people to listen to them in the best circumstances.

[teamsaint]

Yes, I was specifically talking about availability to listen, and specifically not talking about either actual listening statistics or about my own listening habits. As you say, they are different things, although sometimes confused.

My personal view is that programmes are best broadcast at times when there is most opportunity for interested people to listen to them in the best circumstances.

well perhaps the BBC doesn't know its own mind. It is continually reminding us that we can listen online, on demand, on tablet, on mobile, need never miss a show again etc etc,, so why do they bother with all this hand wringing about what is on when, if they really believe that on demand is the answer to all our listening prayers?

[Honoured Guest]

well perhaps the BBC doesn't know its own mind. It is continually reminding us that we can listen online, on demand, on tablet, on mobile, need never miss a show again etc etc,, so why do they bother with all this hand wringing about what is on when, if they really believe that on demand is the answer to all our listening prayers?

Most listening (and viewing) is to radio (and tv) as broadcast. I-player "catch-up" increases the audience but isn't accessible to everybody and is of secondary importance.

On the other hand, there are examples where the BBC is treating broadcasting as principally a shop-window for the main content being on i-player only. For example, world music is now ghettoised on Radio 3 to a single scheduled World on 3 slab on Fridays from 11pm to 1am (and occasional irregular unscheduled pop-ups on In Tune) but World on 3 directs listeners, ever-insistently, to the vast, permanently available, online archive of previous years' proper Radio 3 programming, made when Radio 3 took world music seriously.

[french frank]

HG & TS

well perhaps the BBC doesn't know its own mind. It is continually reminding us that we can listen online, on demand, on tablet, on mobile, need never miss a show again etc etc,, so why do they bother with all this hand wringing about what is on when, if they really believe that on demand is the answer to all our listening prayers?

Listening to other than traditional linear radio may be increasing, but it is still only a small proportion of total listening. 'Live' radio remains highly popular with listeners on the whole.

HG: If any controller ever wanted an excuse to drop drama altogether, they () might very well put it on at 10.15 on a Sunday night. All the figures support that for Radio 3 listening. If you go back to about 2005, Do3 was on at 8pm and could reckon to attract 127,000 listeners; Andy Kershaw, at 10.15 to midnight got 75,000.

Did I recall that you said you were retired? Many people who have to get up and go to work on Monday morning will feel that sitting up until midnight the night before to 'listen with commitment' is unattractive. Drama is expensive. To mount a play costing £20,000 per hour for an audience of well under 100,000 would be something to weigh up carefully.

When Performance on 3 was at 6.30pm on a Sunday, and Drama on 3 at 8pm - the audience actually went up for the drama (but as I remember it that was a bit of a latter day golden age for drama). RW elected not to recommission The Wire and moved Do3 to a less popular hour. That didn't look like commitment to drama to me. The BBC Trust noted that Do3 'lacks impact' (BBC-speak for low public awareness): the late night slot would do nothing to improve that.

[teamsaint]

I probably should have added the " Wry smile/ rhetorical question" smiley to my post !

[Honoured Guest]

Sorry I don't know where to find these listening figures, but I seem to recall from decades ago when Radio 3 drama was on Sundays and weekdays that I read that the drama audience was generally two to three times higher than the music audience in a similar timeslot, which would explain your last paragraph.

Drama on 3 and Andy Kershaw audiences are disctinct (although overlapping) - outside daytime, people generally listen to hear a particular programme, not to have the radio on at a particular time - so I don't think those stats (in isolation) tell us anything.

More pertinent would be listening figures for all Dramas, in all timeslots.

Did I recall that you said that you have no tv? Most people do watch television and the Sunday tv drama between 8pm and 10pm is very popular and often of high quality in some respects, and so was strong competition for Drama on 3 when it was in that same timeslot.

In the 1980s, when tv drama budgets were higher, BBC2 had a longrunning series of feature-length single dramas on film (not the cheaper studio productions on video) which was its drama flagship, and this had a regular timeslot of 10pm on a Sunday, for all the reasons I gave above about the maximum number of people being at home and available to watch at length with minimal potential interruption and with minimal competition from other broadcasts.

Interesting you post the BBC Trust comment about "lack[ing] impact". I was just thinking the same thing about how, even in the world of people who enjoy radio drama there are no (or few universally recognised) radio playwright big names today, to compare with Giles Cooper, John Arden, Samuel Beckett, etc. in the past.

[french frank]

HG

The figures come from various sources, most notably the documents the BBC prepared for the DCMS at the time of the last Charter renewal (I downloaded them - I don't know where they are now online). Yes, Do3 and AK had different audiences; I don't know how big AK's audience was on R1, but he certainly complained about his slot being moved to a less accessible one (twice?).

I don't think it would be relevant to compare 'all Dramas, in all timeslots' if you mean on all stations (and channels?). Radio 3 has an audience pattern which is similar but not identical to that of other stations so I disagree, partially: the time of day is more important than the programme in some cases. People will listen to Breakfast because it's on at breakfast time, and that and the following programme will get more listeners than CotW at midday. And more people will listen to In Tune than listen earlier in the afternoon. The idea is to fit the programme to the time slot.

I think people either are dedicated radio drama listeners or they're not. No, I don't have TV and was unaware that TV drama had anything that I would think of as 'drama' anyway (though I know the BBC calls it that - but even The Archers is 'drama'). I'm not sure that a higher profile would get many more listeners for Do3 - most people wouldn't want to listen even if they did know about it. And in my view the quality has fallen off over the past 10 years anyway.

I'd be cynical about the reasons for the late slot for the TV dramas of the 1980s. 10pm is not peak viewing time, and drama isn't the most popular entertainment. The BBC is always out to maximise its audience. Top Gear is one of the most popular programmes so it goes on at the most popular time. That's why Kershaw started getting shifted around on R1 - he didn't pull in the big audiences.

You're quite right about the lack of good/new radio dramatists - television is where the money is.

[Honoured Guest]

You're quite right about the lack of good/new radio dramatists - television is where the money is.

We all have our personal opinions of the merits of this and that, but a massive problem for radio drama is in establishing a public profile, which is deserved but lacking. Radio drama is still good at working with a constant stream of emerging writers for stage and screen; many good writers are regularly produced by radio drama; and several established writers for stage and screen work in radio drama from time to time. But there's no public profile for this activity and many committed theatregoers, for example, are quite content to remain blissfully ignorant of what's going on in radio drama. I think part of the problem is the low level of media coverage. The occasional co-productions with theatre companies seem to me to be a good step, potentially. I think that Paines Plough (before Christmas) was the perfect partner for this. But ideally, what is needed is a whole raft of media outlets, with different audiences, which signal forthcoming Drama on 3 and also offer a critical response to it. Tweets from the right sources (e.g. Paines Plough and the Royal Court for new writing, the RSC for classics, the Gate for international plays, the NT for everything) would help!

[Flosshilde]

And I wonder whether he'll have any influence at all at the wider BBC:

"British opera singer Sarah Brightman has missed the start of the space training which will allow her to travel to the International Space Station. [...]"

Is that a one-way ticket? (a cheap, obvious shot )

[french frank]

Is that a one-way ticket? (a cheap, obvious shot )

Moving swiftly on ...

I see EVEN The Guardian did better than BBC news - they could have done with Jeremy Paxman as a sub-editor. He'd have known, all right.

[Honoured Guest]

I'd be cynical about the reasons for the late slot for the TV dramas of the 1980s. 10pm is not peak viewing time, and drama isn't the most popular entertainment. The BBC is always out to maximise its audience. Top Gear is one of the most popular programmes so it goes on at the most popular time. That's why Kershaw started getting shifted around on R1 - he didn't pull in the big audiences.

Technically, peak viewing time ends at 10.30pm. And some of those Screen Two films got the biggest tv audiences of the year for BBC2. Top Gear was moved to Sundays by BBC2 as the cornerstone of a new policy of a Sunday night "bloke zone" for that channel - scheduling is more nuanced than you suggest. Yes, Andy Kershaw was moved by Radio 1 from mainstream to niche timeslots, partly for the reason you give but also because the music in his programmes didn't match Radio 1's principal remit to engage with 15-25 year-olds.

[Honoured Guest]

As evidence for my claim that post-10pm on Sunday avoids clashes with popular tv drama, see a whole host of Forumistas waxing lyrical about Foyle's War (Sun 8.00 to 10.00) on the Joy of Mozart thread (bizarrely - even for them).