Hamlet - R4 Afternoon Play 24-28 March 2.15pm

[Guest]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03xhkyv

[french frank]

Interesting point as to whether you would prefer 3 hrs 35 mins of Hamlet divided into 5 daily episodes, or (possibly) 3 hours in one go. Though on Radio 3 it might be lucky to get 2 hrs 30 mins.

How long does the average (cut) stage version last?

[aeolium]

Interesting point as to whether you would prefer 3 hrs 35 mins of Hamlet divided into 5 daily episodes, or (possibly) 3 hours in one go. Though on Radio 3 it might be lucky to get 2 hrs 30 mins.

How long does the average (cut) stage version last?

Well when I saw Hamlet uncut at the Old Vic in the 1970s it lasted 4 hours 20 including an interval, so there'd be quite a lot of cuts in a 2 hrs 30 mins version. Mind you, Olivier's film hacked out whole characters. It's hard to get timings for stage versions these days but I would think 3 hours plus (excluding interval) would be average. I can't see the point in splitting it into daily chunks - it's not the Ring cycle after all.

[french frank]

I can't see the point in splitting it into daily chunks - it's not the Ring cycle after all.

It wouldn't be (I hope) if it were on Radio 3. All I can say is that having my attention drawn to the Radio 4 broadcast might inspire me to sit down one evening and read the lot. And the reading would probably be enriched by memories of the last performance I saw - about three years ago.

[Honoured Guest]

Radio Times spotted minor textual cuts, which I guess means just brief edits for audio comprehensibility and time constraints. Most productions focus on some elements of the play and edit others more ruthlessly. Two and a half hours wouldn't be unusual for a radical edit. I think that a series of daily 45-minute episodes should help listeners to concentrate better, with fewer lapses, and so this full version should potentially work well. Many more listeners would completely lose their bearings in a continuous full audio version.

[aeolium]

Many more listeners would completely lose their bearings in a continuous full audio version.

Really? You mean people can't concentrate for more than half an hour at a time? It's not as though the plot is a complete mystery these days

[french frank]

I think that a series of daily 45-minute episodes should help listeners to concentrate better, with fewer lapses, and so this full version should potentially work well. Many more listeners would completely lose their bearings in a continuous full audio version.

I don't disagree with that. But for an audience that might attend performances it would be less engrossing. It would be perverse to serve up Shakespeare only in episodic form. But it would have to be admitted that starting even a radio broadcast of a complete Shakespeare play at 10pm would be a bit of a challenge. Hence it seems less and less likely that Radio 3 will bother.

Radio 3 seems set to offer shorter works like Wesker's Roots (1hr 50mins) and Juan Mayorga's The Boy at the Back (90 mins) which have a whiff of prestige.

[Honoured Guest]

Three and a half hours is considerably longer than half an hour.

School lessons are usually about 45 minutes long, followed by a change of subject or a short break. It helps concentration!

Plot is just one element of experiencing Shakespeare.

[Honoured Guest]

I don't disagree with that. But for an audience that might attend performances it would be less engrossing. It would be perverse to serve up Shakespeare only in episodic form. But it would have to be admitted that starting even a radio broadcast of a complete Shakespeare play at 10pm would be a bit of a challenge. Hence it seems less and less likely that Radio 3 will bother.

Radio 3 seems set to offer shorter works like Wesker's Roots (1hr 50mins) and Juan Mayorga's The Boy at the Back (90 mins) which have a whiff of prestige.

I despair at your comments which seem motivated entirely by sniping at Radio 3. I wish I'd never stumbled upon this bitter forum. I'm confident that the BBC will continue to broadcast a full range of programming. But I would be quite happy - particularly if it further alienates you and the flies buzzing around you - if classical music output were to be cut back to a more equitable quantity - say a 90-minute Classical on 3 programme three times a week.

[aeolium]

School lessons are usually about 45 minutes long, followed by a change of subject or a short break. It helps concentration!

So what? This is a play for adults. Anyone who can listen to an opera for 3 hours (or 5 hours in the case of Wagner) can listen to a Shakespeare play on radio.

[french frank]

I despair at your comments which seem motivated entirely by sniping at Radio 3. I wish I'd never stumbled upon this bitter forum. I'm confident that the BBC will continue to broadcast a full range of programming. But I would be quite happy - particularly if it further alienates you and the flies buzzing around you - if classical music output were to be cut back to a more equitable quantity - say a 90-minute Classical on 3 programme three times a week.

I don't think I was sniping - merely making factual comments and suppositions derived from them.

But for bitter:

But I would be quite happy - particularly if it further alienates you and the flies buzzing around you - if classical music output were to be cut back to a more equitable quantity - say a 90-minute Classical on 3 programme three times a week.

You appear to be motivated by the fact that you are not a 'Radio 3 listener' in the sense that you have very little interest in Radio 3's 'core proposition' - classical music.

[amateur51]

So what? This is a play for adults. Anyone who can listen to an opera for 3 hours (or 5 hours in the case of Wagner) can listen to a Shakespeare play on radio.

I really don't mind this episodic approach if it draws more 'adults' to get involved with the piece, one of the core pieces of the European (World?) canon.

What I would feel offended by is that if it were to be the only presentation style - otherwise it's horses of course in my view.

And as french frank says, sending some people back to reading the play might be another welcome outcome.

[aeolium]

I really don't mind this episodic approach if it draws more 'adults' to get involved with the piece, one of the core pieces of the European (World?) canon.

What I would feel offended by is that if it were to be the only presentation style - otherwise it's horses of course in my view.

And as french frank says, sending some people back to reading the play might be another welcome outcome.

I don't think it's a method that is suitable for plays, any more than it is suitable for operas - for instance, an act of a Handel or Verdi opera each afternoon. With the play, as with the opera, the action is intended to flow on from act to act - in fact, paradoxically, it's easier to retain one's concentration when it is performed in this way than if it is performed or broadcast episodically. A lot of modern productions of classic drama and opera now move quickly from scene to scene without breaks to emphasise that flow. That's not the case with dramatisations of novels, which R4 does with Classic Serial, where it is obviously right to do it episodically (some of the novels were serialised in publication).

And while reading the play is good, I think radio is a superb medium for drama, perhaps the best.

[french frank]

I really don't mind this episodic approach if it draws more 'adults' to get involved with the piece, one of the core pieces of the European (World?) canon.

What I would feel offended by is that if it were to be the only presentation style - otherwise it's horses of course in my view.

That was what I meant by saying I 'didn't disagree' with what HG said. I might have added that it's 'all right for Radio 4' if it's been decreed by someone on high that 'most people' can't concentrate for longer than 45 minutes at a time. But if Shakespeare is now to be served up on Radio 4 rather than Radio 3 in episodic format that is not 'all right'. And a 10pm start for Do3 isn't the most promising sign that Shakespeare is soon to be broadcast on Radio 3. I thought those were reasonable points, reasonably expressed?

It might also be useful to investigate why people have a much shorter attention span than they used to: 30 min soap opera episodes? 5 minute 'songs' ... It might also be argued that decreasing attention spans are not, in all circumstances, a Good Thing.

[amateur51]

I don't think it's a method that is suitable for plays, any more than it is suitable for operas - for instance, an act of a Handel or Verdi opera each afternoon. With the play, as with the opera, the action is intended to flow on from act to act - in fact, paradoxically, it's easier to retain one's concentration when it is performed in this way than if it is performed or broadcast episodically. A lot of modern productions of classic drama and opera now move quickly from scene to scene without breaks to emphasise that flow. That's not the case with dramatisations of novels, which R4 does with Classic Serial, where it is obviously right to do it episodically (some of the novels were serialised in publication).

And while reading the play is good, I think radio is a superb medium for drama, perhaps the best.

I agfree with all that you say, aeolium.

However, if an episodic approach can be demonstrated to have enticed some reluctant people to engage with the play on radio or on the stage then it has been a worthwhile experiment.

After years of struggling with Proust I have started, on the advice of a friend, to listen to À la recherche du temps perdu as an unabridged audiobook and I'm flying through it. I hope that the insights & confidence thus gained will enable me to pick up the written word once more & to make it to the end, finding new joys as I go