What should a 'cultural network' be doing?

[Honoured Guest]

Orwellian !

Licence fee income is rising £50m PA.

Even if true, that's not an increase in real terms, and you don't mention the World services, S4C, etc. whose costs were transferred from Government to BBC with no additional funding.

[Gordon]

The BBC disproportionately overinvests in Radio 3, on the measures of cost per listener (reach) and cost per listener hour.

Isn't that what public service agencies do? In the view of some R1 is a total over investment in something that the commercial sector already does, possibly to excess, and so there is no market failure to justify a public service. The roots of R1 are in the 60s and pirate radio feeding a growing appetite for pop music. As a PSB [no commercial radio and only 3 radio services, well 2 and a bit actually, anyway] the BBC felt the need and public pressure to address this within the limits of its then current technical resources. Is there the same need for R1 today? [rhetorical question].


"Culture" is what people do with their time and energies and its range is vast. It's what characterises them and distinguishes them from other communities. The BBC and public service as a whole should reflect its community as a whole and in particular it has a specific role in making sure that minority sectors of that community are not left out when resources are concentrated on the wants of the most popular. If that means the cost per head of minorities is higher than the mass then so be it. Doing that sort of thing is a part of our "Culture"!

As the BBC's budgetary rack continues to tighten, it seems fair to create a ringfenced budget for music and culture, to make it an internal tussle between the Proms, the Performing Groups and the Radio 3 Dimensions.

In my days in broadcasting there was a clause in both BBC and IBA regulations that used words like "turn to good effect" the public investment in services rendered. That was used to allow BBC publications to make money from books, magazines, CDs, DVDs etc and also the BBCSO/PO to put on public concerts [to the disgust of the LSO/LPO etc] and to sell its programmes abroad. The Proms are subsidised so are effectively a public service. There is still scope for the BBC to "turn to good effect" the licence fee funds if only it was allowed to become more commercial in the sense of generating some revenue [I don't mean taking adverts or overt sponsorship] BUT the obvious howls of protest will erupt immediately because this is unfair advantage. Its technical and engineering network arm has been removed long since but that used to train other nations' people and provide services to other external bodies. When IBA was privatised one of the very profitable things its successor did was to allow all sorts of companies to put their radio antennas on the masts [eg, police, mobile phone companies], something that had not been allowed before. Now there is a monopoly of broadcast transmission infrastructure!!

The "commercial" style of the promotional trails, tweets etc that we have complained about here are symptomatic of a BBC that feels uneasy about its place in the world. Some of that is traditional but it is also because its audience is fickle with an attention span of milliseconds.

[french frank]

The BBC disproportionately overinvests in Radio 3, on the measures of cost per listener (reach) and cost per listener hour.

But it's not the most expensive service even on those particular measures.

In actual cash terms the content costs less than Radio 1's, even supporting the Proms and a (decreasing) number of new productions of classic theatre.

And by your argument the BBC disproportionately underinvests in Radio 2. But the whole argument about 'broadcasting' is that as many or as few can be listening to a particular programme without that affecting the actual cost. On cost per hour Radio 4 is much more expensive than Radio 3.

cpl and cplh are all very well for commercial broadcasters; they are inappropriately applied to public service broadcasting.

And there isn't a 'ring-fenced' budget for music and culture' - there's a ring-fenced budget for the Controller's Proms. Or rather, someone wangled it for there to be 'reinvestment' in the Proms at the same time as Radio 3's total budget was cut; so a double cost to Radio 3.

[Gordon]

Go here for a review of the BBC handbooks; the notes summarise comments on what the BBC had been doing over a period of years.

http://www.britishonlinearchives.co.uk/group.php?cid=9781851171385&pid=bbc-hand

click on the "show more" link and then the link to the document. I liked this on page 6:

"The theme of 'dumbing down' has been....a subject for debate within the BBC for much of its history."

If you go here you can get past Radio Times etc.

[french frank]

"The theme of 'dumbing down' has been....a subject for debate within the BBC for much of its history."

Yes, it's taken them quite a long time to get this far

If you go here you can get past Radio Times etc.

Goodness, I could make quite a profit on my old back copies. And reclaim my roof space.

Also: "... there is a difference between 'universal' programmes not requiring the undivided attention of the listener, and 'speciality' programmes - talks, music, news and even variety which require more deliberate listening..."

[Honoured Guest]

Isn't that what public service agencies do? In the view of some R1 is a total over investment in something that the commercial sector already does, possibly to excess, and so there is no market failure to justify a public service. The roots of R1 are in the 60s and pirate radio feeding a growing appetite for pop music. As a PSB [no commercial radio and only 3 radio services, well 2 and a bit actually, anyway] the BBC felt the need and public pressure to address this within the limits of its then current technical resources. Is there the same need for R1 today? [rhetorical question].

As you suggest, Radio 1 and 1Xtra have changed since the 1960s. They certainly fulfil a public service role in new music which isn't duplicated in the commercial sector. As with Radio 3, various splinter factions of music obsessives wish that they would do more of this, or do it differently. And they now have a parallel purpose as the general BBC radio service (beyond just music) for a youthful demographic.

"Culture" is what people do with their time and energies and its range is vast. It's what characterises them and distinguishes them from other communities. The BBC and public service as a whole should reflect its community as a whole and in particular it has a specific role in making sure that minority sectors of that community are not left out when resources are concentrated on the wants of the most popular. If that means the cost per head of minorities is higher than the mass then so be it. Doing that sort of thing is a part of our "Culture"!

This gets to the nub of the "culture" discussion, in the Radio 3 sense. I think that a cultural network like Radio 3 should aim to broadcast accessible programmes which cover the whole "cultural" field - academic disciplines, arts genres and cultural activities. I don't think Radio 3 should start by listing cultural minorities and then targeting bits of output at each group of people on the list.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

the bbc licence fee is currently £145 -50p pa
the state pension is £110-15p pw
you can do the long division
even in its presently debased state i find R3 worth the price at roughly 1.3 weeks of my income
and i get all that free television [in colour] on top of it
you split the baby if you want to

[french frank]

This gets to the nub of the "culture" discussion, in the Radio 3 sense. I think that a cultural network like Radio 3 should aim to broadcast accessible programmes which cover the whole "cultural" field - academic disciplines, arts genres and cultural activities. I don't think Radio 3 should start by listing cultural minorities and then targeting bits of output at each group of people on the list.

Which they don't do - and that moves towards what FoR3 has been saying. You'll find people (individuals) who would like wall-to-wall classical music (the equivalent to a particularly luxurious wallpaper - but still just wallpaper).

Choice FM (launched 1990 as an urban music station), now Capital Xtra, was pretty much seen when Radio 1 Xtra was launched in 2002 as a natural competitor. If it's now changed its format, that would appear to be to get away from the BBC which is making a habit of doing what commercial radio can and does do.

This from the BBC, last time its Charter was upo for renewal:

" Radio 1 operates in the most competitive arena with hundreds of music stations on offer, most of which seek to serve the younger demographics."

• About one in ten mentions were other BBC stations, led by Radio 2, various BBC Local and 6Music, but most of these were named by people aged 35+
• Most popular individual stations mentioned:-
• Virgin (34 mentions)
• Capital FM
• Galaxy
• Radio 2
• Vibe FM (Dance station, East Anglia)
• Heart
• Kiss 100

[Gordon]

the bbc licence fee is currently £145 -50p pa
the state pension is £110-15p pw
you can do the long division
even in its presently debased state i find R3 worth the price at roughly 1.3 weeks of my income
and i get all that free television [in colour] on top of it
you split the baby if you want to

Always worth re-iterating that point Cal. A pint of beer a week. What's a season at Stamford Bridge these days - for 90 minutes every other week - in the winter? Sky viewers will pay £40 a month or more for - what? Choice? Lots and lots of channels [more than Freeview] or is it the exclusive Sport and Movies that the PSBs can't/won't bid for?

If the problem with BBC and R3 in particular was only money, how much would you pay to fix the debasement? Rhetorical again. It isn't about money though is it?

This chart from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Televis...m_(historical)

[teamsaint]

this is heading off topic I suppose.
I would think the issue that many have with the licence fee is that it is compulsory , and additional to their Sky or other subscription, and that they feel that they simply don't get value for that compulsion.
Given that 60% of BBC spending is on BBC 1 and 2, if you don't find much that you want to watch there, then your licence fee is unlikely to make you very content.

Just to get back nearer the topic,the current remit of the BBc television channels on music and arts are:

BBC 1 . 40 hours.
BBC 2. 150 hours
BBC 3 30 hours of new programming.
BBC 4 150 hours of new programming.

Now I assume that repeats count, and that 1 and 2 don't actually have to show any new programming .(apologies if this is incorrect).

so that is 370 hours per year, divided between 4 channels, much of which may be repeated, and 180 hours of which must be new. Of that , I think around 60 hours is the Proms, and glastonbury must account for a reasonable chunk, maybe 30 hours?

[mercia]

Mailonline reckons that either BBC3 or 4 is for the chop

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571777/BBC-axe-one-TV-channels-bid-save-100m-Announcement-month-BBC3-BBC4-go.html

[Honoured Guest]

... along with Radio 3, as a 24/7 network ...

[french frank]

... along with Radio 3, as a 24/7 network ...

Which bit of th 24 hours would you suggest they closed? (Hint - Through the Night is one of the cheapest bits of the schedule - but they could save money by broadcasting it from 6am to midday).

[Bryn]

Mailonline reckons that either BBC3 or 4 is for the chop

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...3-BBC4-go.html

Given that, at least in the area in which I live, BBC FOUR was the poor cousin when it came to the recent HD upgrades (due its very low power, not even an intermittent signal reaches here), I reckon its days are numbered.

[Honoured Guest]

Mon-Fri:
6.00 Breakfast
8.30 Essential Classics
11.00 Through the Night (selected repeat)
12.00 Composer of the Week
1.00 Lunchtime Concert
2.00 Through the Night (selected repeat)
4.00 In Tune
6.00 Composer of the Week
7.00-7.15 The Essay

Mon: 7.15 Opera on 3
Mon: 10.30-12.00 Jazz on 3
Tue-Fri: 7.15 Live in Concert (with 15 min intro: context/music)
Tue-Thu: 10.00 Free Thinking
Tue-Thu: 10.45-12.00 Late Junction
Fri: 10.00-12.00 World on 3

Mon-Fri: 12.00- 6.00 Closedown

Live in Concert (Tue-Sun) would include some of the cut Afternoon on 3, so 12.5 hours of orchestra broadcasts per week would be cut, inc. live concerts and special recordings.

The Verb could become an interval feature, like next week's Commonwealth Stories.

Through the Night could be broadcast on the Asian Network (12.00-6.00) which currently carries 5Live at this time.