The concept of moral injury

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  • amateur51
    • Jan 2025

    The concept of moral injury

    An interesting article exploring why in the past year, 6,500 American former active military personnel have killed themselves, a rate at which suicides have exceeded the annual number of personnel lost in action. Why might this be so?

    "For William Nash, a retired Navy psychiatrist who directed the marine corps' combat stress control programme, William Busbee's [a young soldier whose mental distress and suicide provides the human focus of the article] described expressions of torment are all too familiar. He has worked with hundreds of service members who have been grappling with suicidal thoughts, not least when he was posted to Fallujah in Iraq during the height of the fighting in 2004.

    He and colleagues in military psychiatry have developed the concept of "moral injury" to help understand the current wave of self-harm. He defines that as "damage to your deeply held beliefs about right and wrong. It might be caused by something that you do or fail to do, or by something that is done to you – but either way it breaks that sense of moral certainty."

    Contrary to widely held assumptions, it is not the fear and the terror that service members endure in the battlefield that inflicts most psychological damage, Nash has concluded, but feelings of shame and guilt related to the moral injuries they suffer. Top of the list of such injuries, by a long shot, is when one of their own people is killed."

    This concept of 'moral injury' seems highly persuasive to me. Do others feel similarly or do others wish to provide a different analysis? For those so persuaded, do you see any extension of this phenomenon into other perhaps more apparently mundane aspects of life?

    Special report: Last year, more active-duty soldiers killed themselves than died in combat. And after a decade of deployments to war zones, the Pentagon is bracing for things to get much worse
    Last edited by Guest; 11-09-13, 11:01. Reason: I forgot the link - duh!!
  • Beef Oven!
    Ex-member
    • Sep 2013
    • 18147

    #2
    Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
    For those so persuaded, do you see any extension of this phenomenon into other perhaps more apparently mundane aspects of life?
    Let's get straight to the point. What moral injuries in mundane life are you thinking of here?

    I only say that because your post sounded a bit 'leading'. If I'm wrong, please accept my apology upfront.

    Comment

    • amateur51

      #3
      Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
      Let's get straight to the point. What moral injuries in mundane life are you thinking of here?

      I only say that because your post sounded a bit 'leading'. If I'm wrong, please accept my apology upfront.
      I'd be more interested to hear what others have to say about the concept first, thanks

      Comment

      • Mr Pee
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 3285

        #4
        Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
        Let's get straight to the point. What moral injuries in mundane life are you thinking of here?

        I only say that because your post sounded a bit 'leading'. If I'm wrong, please accept my apology upfront.

        I read it that way too, beefy, in which case this thread should join the P+CA board in the dungeon.
        Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.

        Mark Twain.

        Comment

        • Beef Oven!
          Ex-member
          • Sep 2013
          • 18147

          #5
          Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
          I'd be more interested to hear what others have to say about the concept first, thanks
          Ok. Here goes. It does seem a bit half-baked.

          I accept that psychology was born in an armchair, but it would be nice, if that's the word I want, if this chap could draw on some empirical intelligence.

          Comment

          • Pabmusic
            Full Member
            • May 2011
            • 5537

            #6
            I would give it a (tentative) thumbs-up. It may be that the USA is more prone to this than we are, for Americans have long been told that they are right - the good guys standing up to the bad guys. It's the 1950s Cold War mentality that's drummed into them from childhood (think of all those comic books). Perhaps that is cracking a little.

            As for us (and most of Europe) we're usually more cynical, but I can still see circumstances...

            Comment

            • Beef Oven!
              Ex-member
              • Sep 2013
              • 18147

              #7
              Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
              I would give it a (tentative) thumbs-up. It may be that the USA is more prone to this than we are, for Americans have long been told that they are right - the good guys standing up to the bad guys. It's the 1950s Cold War mentality that's drummed into them from childhood (think of all those comic books). Perhaps that is cracking a little.

              As for us (and most of Europe) we're usually more cynical, but I can still see circumstances...
              Well it makes sense Pabs, but wouldn't we want a bit more than that?

              Comment

              • amateur51

                #8
                Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                Ok. Here goes. It does seem a bit half-baked.

                I accept that psychology was born in an armchair, but it would be nice, if that's the word I want, if this chap could draw on some empirical intelligence.
                As I read the article, William Nash is drawing entirely from the empiral experience of working with morally injured former military personnel.

                Later: I realise that I omitted the link - now provided in OP - we need the smiley back
                Last edited by Guest; 11-09-13, 11:05. Reason: missing name

                Comment

                • amateur51

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Mr Pee View Post
                  I read it that way too, beefy, in which case this thread should join the P+CA board in the dungeon.
                  This post is about an idea, a theory deriving from empirical experience of a developing phenomenon. As such, I believe it suits the Ideas and theory section ideally, which is why I posted it here.

                  Comment

                  • Pabmusic
                    Full Member
                    • May 2011
                    • 5537

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                    Well it makes sense Pabs, but wouldn't we want a bit more than that?
                    Oh - I'm really not suggesting we publish my four sentences as a comprehensive discussion paper!

                    Comment

                    • Beef Oven!
                      Ex-member
                      • Sep 2013
                      • 18147

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                      Oh - I'm really not suggesting we publish my four sentences as a comprehensive discussion paper!
                      Hehe!

                      All the same, I'd like to know about the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of other dudes that served in these miserable conflicts that presumably were faced with the same 'moral injustices' but didn't commit suicide. I get a more 'political' taste than scientific.

                      Bring back Durkheim!!!

                      Comment

                      • amateur51

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Beef Oven! View Post
                        Hehe!

                        All the same, I'd like to know about the hundreds of thousands (perhaps millions) of other dudes that served in these miserable conflicts that presumably were faced with the same 'moral injustices' but didn't commit suicide. I get a more 'political' taste than scientific.

                        Bring back Durkheim!!!
                        Injuries, not injustices, Beefy. Your point is well-made tho'.

                        Comment

                        • Pabmusic
                          Full Member
                          • May 2011
                          • 5537

                          #13
                          Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                          Injuries, not injustices, Beefy. Your point is well-made tho'.
                          Yes it is, Beefy.

                          Comment

                          • french frank
                            Administrator/Moderator
                            • Feb 2007
                            • 30573

                            #14
                            What strikes me as slightly odd as far as defending the case goes is that he was already a keen and willing soldier: he looked forward to going to Afghanistan. Did he feel a moral guilt about doing what a soldier might be expected to have to do or about what actually happened?

                            It also says:

                            "When he came home on 18 January 2012, a civilian once again, he was inconsolable. He told his mother: "I'm nothing now. I've been thrown away by the army."

                            A feeling might (I think Pabs was saying this) pre-exist that as a young, fit man he ought to join the army and do his patriotic duty (the US always being the 'good guys'). And then finding that, not necessarily intentionally, war involved doing things he hadn't conceived of doing - but could this be described as 'moral injury' in being inflicted by any individual or body?

                            Not entirely on-topic, I'm reminded of the parents of British soldiers killed in the Falklands, saying that their sons had thought of the Army as being a secure place for an 18-year-old where they could serve their term, learn a trade and then leave. They hadn't thought of having to go to war...
                            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                            Comment

                            • amateur51

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Pabmusic View Post
                              Yes it is, Beefy.
                              But does it imply an acceptable level of such suicides or perhaps greater screening of personnel prior to selection or during and after warfare?

                              Comment

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