the gangsters win because the state is corrupt ....

[Arcades Project]

/

[ahinton]

It's surely right to protect the social security fund in general from being raped by idlers who won't work and who believe they are owed a living - and I expect we all know at least one of those - but this present government, despite it's pious words, seems to be unable or unwilling either to prevent large scale abuse at the top or conscientiously to care for those truly in need. The culture seems wrong, somehow. The fire seems so often aimed at the wrong targets.

Given that I agree with much of what you wrote in your post, it is only right that I take issue with the first part of this extract from it, as another member has now likewise done; I too know no one who fits your description and, whilst at the same time I do not doubt that such people probably exist, they are, I believe, very much in the minority - ask anyone who has applied unsuccessfully for literally hundreds of jobs, many of which had hundreds of other applicants - and ask anyone who has lost a job when their employer has gone bust and who cannot then secure a replacement job. In considering this, do also bear in mind the number of people in work, part of whose salaries are being paid for out of their employers' borrowings; these people's taxes, as taken and remitted to government by their employers on their behalf, are likewise being paid for out of their employers' borrowings, which effectively means that a government that is already itself borrowed up to the hilt is also taking taxes from firms and people that are being paid to it out of their borrowings.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

rape? nah

welfare fraud is the wrong priority .... it fills the right wing press but is not at all on a scale to get too excited about, not even one major bank's bonuses for one year really ....

[ahinton]

rape? nah

welfare fraud is the wrong priority .... it fills the right wing press but is not at all on a scale to get too excited about, not even one major bank's bonuses for one year really ....

Indeed; in fact, if all the state benefits to which claimants are entitled and all due tax refunds and rebates paid out respectively to those claimants and those out of pocket taxpayers, the system would be in a far more parlous state than has ever arisen as a direct consequnce of deliberate fraudulent activity. If the tax and benefits system were to be appropriately simplified, the margins of both error (on either side) and fraud would each be drastically reduced.

[Simon]

Simplification would help, no doubt.

I wasn't clear enough, earlier - I wasn't referring so much to those hunting jobs but to those on disability schemes. I don't know how they work, but I do know that even around our small community, there are two persons who have been fraudulently pretending to be disabled for most of the past 20 odd years. They both have pensions from previous jobs and are both very well off. And one of them has been running a little cash sideline as well.

Should they have been reported? Yes. Have I or my family done so? No. Why? Don't know - just didn't like to. But they are, generally, not welcomed in the community, so in a sense perhaps that is a form of punishment.

But when old people are dying alone for want of care staff and people like this have taken thousands from the pot, it makes one very angry.

[amateur51]

Simplification would help, no doubt.

I wasn't clear enough, earlier - I wasn't referring so much to those hunting jobs but to those on disability schemes. I don't know how they work, but I do know that even around our small community, there are two persons who have been fraudulently pretending to be disabled for most of the past 20 odd years. They both have pensions from previous jobs and are both very well off. And one of them has been running a little cash sideline as well.

Should they have been reported? Yes. Have I or my family done so? No. Why? Don't know - just didn't like to. But they are, generally, not welcomed in the community, so in a sense perhaps that is a form of punishment.

But when old people are dying alone for want of care staff and people like this have taken thousands from the pot, it makes one very angry.

Everyone who claims disability benefits will have recently been or is about to be assessed regarding their eligibility for these benefits by the DWP via assessments undertaken by the French company ATOS.

During this process a good many disabled people have been told that they are fit for work and their benefits have been withdrawn. Many of these people have appealed against this decision. I think the current success rate for appeals is in the region of 40%, a staggeringly high figure (I'm sure eighthobstruction will correct me if I'm wrong on that %age).

This process has caused considerable anguish both for the claimants and their carers. It has not resulted in huge amounts of money being saved as a result of clearing up fraudulent claims, because there never was a huge amount of fraudulent claiming.

The reason there is a crisis in caring is because we have never planned for the gradual rise in the number of elderly and infirm people. We knew it was coming and we didn't plan for it. It has nothing to do with benefits for disabled people.

[teamsaint]

Ams, you know about the mechanics of the thing better than most of us.
However, there are more people in work than ever before, to pay the taxes to fund the benefits system. Corporate profits are at all time high, even if the Corporation tax take is falling.
Although your point about an ageing population is important, it seems to me that the changes in the system are being implemented because there is a will at the top to destroy the incomes of those at the bottom, not because there is a need for change based on demographics.

[amateur51]

Ams, you know about the mechanics of the thing better than most of us.
However, there are more people in work than ever before, to pay the taxes to fund the benefits system. Corporate profits are at all time high, even if the Corporation tax take is falling.
Although your point about an ageing population is important, it seems to me that the changes in the system are being implemented because there is a , not because there is a need for change based on demographics.

You're not saying that this will at the top to destroy the incomes of those at the bottom is being hidden under the guise of the need to provide care for elderly people, are you?

Gosh.

[KipperKid]

there is a will at the top to destroy the incomes of those at the bottom

Well it ain't working round my way - they got apartments, central heating, double-glazing, Stella Artois, drugs, tattoos, fighting dogs as pets, Bensons & Hedges and bags of leisure time.

[amateur51]

Well it ain't working round my way - they got apartments, central heating, double-glazing, Stella Artois drugs, tattoos, fighting dogs as pets, Bensons & Hedges and bags of leisure time.

Well that's Bodrum for you.

[teamsaint]

no surprises, as you suggest. But I think that the demographics argument is a smokescreen, is all !!

[teamsaint]

Well it ain't working round my way - they got apartments, central heating, double-glazing, Stella Artois, drugs, tattoos, fighting dogs as pets, Bensons & Hedges and bags of leisure time.

they got any vacancies?
But in dog free zones? Not THAT keen on Bensons, but they would do.......

[KipperKid]

they got any vacancies?
But in dog free zones? Not THAT keen on Bensons, but they would do.......

Do you smoke?

[teamsaint]

Do you smoke?

if the government give them away, it would be rude not to.
ER got me started, but he was an Embassy man, IIRC.
I think you may have led us off topic KK.....

Edit...used to enjoy a crafty cig back in the old punk posing days.... gave it up to release cash for record buying and football violence.

[KipperKid]

if the government give them away, it would be rude not to.
ER got me started, but he was an Embassy man, IIRC.
I think you may have led us off topic KK.....

I was an Embassy man. Back on topic - I say it the rich!