Etymological Gems

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  • salymap
    Late member
    • Nov 2010
    • 5969

    #16
    I love these boards. A simple enquiry turns up such wonderful facts. So better not to snuggle too close to one's beloved's hair,lest one gets poisoned.

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    • mangerton
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 3346

      #18
      Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
      ... a rather odd tidbit from the Pepys Diary ...
      None othese bowdlerising Americanisms here, surely - especially in such a thread as this.

      If it was a typo, please accept my apologies.

      jean, that's an excellent poem. Thanks for posting.

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      • vinteuil
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 12954

        #19
        "tidbit" is neither a bowdlerization nor an Americanism; it is the earlier form, of which 'titbit' is a later corruption.

        OED provides:

        1640 A tyd bit, i e a speciall morsell reserved to eat at last
        1701 To be always loading the table, and eating of tid-bits
        1775 For fear any tid-bit should be snapped up before him, he snatches at it ... greedily
        1834 The sturgeons, the finest salmons, and other tid-bits of the fishery
        1735 My farce is an Oglio of tid-bits
        1776 A fine girl, as I live! too nice a tid-bit for an apprentice

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        • amateur51

          #20
          Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
          "tidbit" is neither a bowdlerization nor an Americanism; it is the earlier form, of which 'titbit' is a later corruption.

          OED provides:

          1640 A tyd bit, i e a speciall morsell reserved to eat at last
          1701 To be always loading the table, and eating of tid-bits
          1775 For fear any tid-bit should be snapped up before him, he snatches at it ... greedily
          1834 The sturgeons, the finest salmons, and other tid-bits of the fishery
          1735 My farce is an Oglio of tid-bits
          1776 A fine girl, as I live! too nice a tid-bit for an apprentice
          I'd not appreciated that polari went as far back as 1735 - that's right out of Round the Horne, that one

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          • mangerton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 3346

            #21
            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
            "tidbit" is neither a bowdlerization nor an Americanism; it is the earlier form, of which 'titbit' is a later corruption.
            Well, my apologies. Thanks, I was not aware of that. I thought the word "tidbit" had been introduced to protect American sensibilities, and my dictionary rather bears that out.

            I shall return it to Messrs Chambers forthwith for a refund.

            Comment

            • amateur51

              #22
              Originally posted by mangerton View Post
              Well, my apologies. Thanks, I was not aware of that. I thought the word "tidbit" had been introduced to protect American sensibilities, and my dictionary rather bears that out.

              I shall return it to Messrs Chambers forthwith for a refund.
              Pass it by scottycelt first, mangerton

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              • Padraig
                Full Member
                • Feb 2013
                • 4251

                #23
                Originally posted by amateur51 View Post
                Pass it by scottycelt first, mangerton
                Watch it amateur! scotty might look you up.

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                • amateur51

                  #24
                  Originally posted by Padraig View Post
                  Watch it amateur! scotty might look you up.
                  That thought has ruined my afternoon, Padraig

                  Comment

                  • vinteuil
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12954

                    #25
                    ... it has to be said that the etymology of the 'tid' is obscure.

                    In his 1727 Dictionary, Bailey says "Tid, nice, delicate, as a Tid-Bit."
                    Johnson in 1755 has " nice bit, nice food. Tid, adj. (tydder, Saxon), tender, soft, nice ... Titbi't (properly tidbit; tid, tender, and bit)"

                    However, as OED points out - the Old English word meant by Johnson is tidre, tyddre 'weak, fragile, easily broken; frail in health, infirm'; it could not give tid 'tender, soft, nice'. But the English Dialect Dictionary has from Midland counties Tid, Tidd = 'fond, attached, careful (of), solicitous (about); (of a child) tender, nice, fanciful; (of a man) cunningly reserved'. JD Robertson's Gloucester Glossary [1890] has Tid 'playful, frolicsome' and cites from John Smyth's Berkeley manuscripts c 1640 'Tyd ie wanton. Hee is very tyd, ie very wanton. A tyd bit, ie a speciall morsell reserved to eat at last'. These evidence the limited dialect use of an adjective tid, tidd, or tyd; though the senses given do not very closely agree with that deduced by Bailey from tid-bit."

                    ... so glad you asked!

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                    • salymap
                      Late member
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 5969

                      #26
                      My Pocket Oxford says 'tit-bit, a tasty morsel' - wellyes I suppose

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