Capitalism, the internet and trends in music

[Thropplenoggin]

Unlike some MBers who seem staunchly opposed to even a hint of off-topic discussion, I'm not opposed to inevitable and natural digressions, as long as I can see the digression as being something of a byway to the original thread's main highway, as it were.

However, the above change of tack, whilst worthy of debate, is surely now more suitable for the 'Ideas & Theory' section. Hosts? Moderators? Anyone?

[Ian]

. So I'm suggesting there's nothing wrong with disapproving of some of the stuff on the internet.

Of course there is nothing wrong with that.

The only thing I'm interested in (and is vaguely relevant to the context of this thread) is knowing is what it is about the internet that prevents it being (in your eyes) an unfettered free exchange of ideas. Almost certainly, there is loads of nasty stuff on the internet - but that, to me is a different discussion, and, in any case, I have I have no answer for you about that. Perhaps, you are right, and more stuff should be made illegal (if that's what you are suggesting), perhaps the nasty stuff is a sort of price that has to be paid for freedom. I don't know. Sorry to be a dissapointment.

[ahinton]

Unlike some MBers who seem staunchly opposed to even a hint of off-topic discussion, I'm not opposed to inevitable and natural digressions, as long as I can see the digression as being something of a byway to the original thread's main highway, as it were.

However, the above change of tack, whilst worthy of debate, is surely now more suitable for the 'Ideas & Theory' section. Hosts? Moderators? Anyone?

Agreed. Some digressions might even help to enhance the value of a thread debate, provided that they don't ultimately lose sight of its original topic altogether (and, if they do, they get transferred to another (usually new) thread) but, in such cases, there is usually some link between the original topic and the digression which is plainly not the case here; if anyone really wants to go and discuss internet porn (assuming the Moderators would permit such a discussion here in the first place), a thread on Howard Goodall's TV series is self-evidently a most inappropriate place in which to do it.

[Nick Armstrong]

I'll attempt a connection (I'm good at this in the pub quiz)

HG dismisses serial music from his personal history because hardly anyone likes it (the music that is).
The rhetorical implication here is that, the reason more folk don’t like serial music is because their heads are turned by the easy pleasures of porn (and other products of the global capitalist system).

Have to agree with others, that just highlights what a complete non-sequitur it is.

I agree with Thropples, I like a tangent or a 'relevant digression' as much as the next person, it's part of the charm of this Forum - but this 'porn' frolic is just silly in the present context, I agree with ahinton on that.

I'm not sure whether it just needs deleting (which I can do) or moving to some general thread in the basement (which I can't). One for FF I think....

[Julien Sorel]

splat

[Thropplenoggin]

Hurrah for sensible forum moderation!

Hurrah for Hosts and Nice Guy Caliban!

Hurrah for French Frank!

[Ian]

Well, haven't got any interest in pursuing this line, but it's only a handful of posts among 450. So either the thread will stick or move on in a different direction. Let's see what happens.

[Julien Sorel]

Isn't Thropplenoggin's #37 now off-topic? Similarly my #36, Caliban's #35, ahinton's #34, Thropplenoggin's #32?

[french frank]

Isn't Thropplenoggin's #37 now off-topic? Similarly my #36, Caliban's #35, ahinton's #34, Thropplenoggin's #32?

The posts weren't moved primarily because they were off-topic, they were moved because they opened up vistas which merited being discussed in some detail. Meanwhile the mundane matter of Goodall and his televisual musical Weltanschauung may raise different discussions.

[Julien Sorel]

The posts weren't moved primarily because they were off-topic, they were moved because they opened up vistas which merited being discussed in some detail. Meanwhile the mundane matter of Goodall and his televisual musical Weltanschauung may raise different discussions.

Clear as mud, but OK . I like Weltanschauung.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

music sales GREW in 2012

and this on how musicians make a dime from it

[Ian]

The traditional big guns of corporate music are gradually withdrawing from anything other than very, very mainstream stuff. Rather than being a bad thing this opens up the market to a multitude of smaller players - often the musicians themselves (particularly in Jazz) who find it entirely cost effective to produce their own albums and release them either themselves or on license to small specialist labels. It would be much harder for this type of activity to gain respectability if the Majors were still involved chucking huge marketing budgets at selected individuals. Also, many fans are happy to pay if they think the artist is getting the lions share.

[Ian]

I'm scared of all the millions and millions of isolated little individuals, in front of whatever their Macs will be, in ten, twenty, or however many years' time, imagining they are freely making history-shaking contributions to art as significant expression and means of communication, in a world whose every other aspect and effect on the individual is controlled by mass media at the behest of huge transnational corporations, and all the forces protecting them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1eckVV06_wA&feature=youtu.be

I've just had a look at this interesting seminar given by Tom Robinson about how bands can best promote themselves on the internet. I know this is concerning pop music not classical but I don't think that distinction is relevant here. One of the main things that he talks about is the need for the artists to ENGAGE with their audience - not to isolate themselves, or their fans, from each other.

[Byas'd Opinion]

Some interesting thoughts on on how the internet affects musicians ability to make a living: "Meet the new boss, worse than the old boss".

http://thetrichordist.com/2012/04/15/meet-the-new-boss-worse-than-the-old-boss-full-post/

It concentrates on the US indie rock market, but it's still worth a read. The author is the main songwriter with Camper Van Beethoven, and before that was a computer programmer. There are some good links in the side bar as well.

What I like about it is that he's enthusiastic about the internet as a medium, but very sceptical about the models of how to use it for distributing music being put forward by a). the big corporations and b). the anti-copyright brigade.

Apple is the most valuable company in the world. In a way you can argue that Apple IS The Man 2.0.But unlike UMG , WMG or Sony, Apple (or any of the digital music stores) does not recycle any of their revenues back into the creation and development of artists and songs. And this is part of the problem.

Musicians are constantly derided by the Digerati. It’s usually after someone like myself suggest that if other people are profiting from distributing an artist’s work (Kim Dotcom, Mediafire, Megavideo, Mp3tunes,) they should share some of their proceeds with the artists. At this point the Digerati then proceed to call us “dinosaurs”, “know nothings” or worse.

[Flosshilde]

Anyone tell me who the current trendmongers are ? What are the trends in 2013 ? I'd genuinely like to know.

Mintel are probably the go-to people for that. You'll need a couple of K for one of their reports, mind you.

http://store.mintel.com/industries/leisure-time