the Austerity Con or Con

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

.... but the bankers will be safe and all those nice stock broker and merchant venture chaps in Chipping Norton eh?

[Richard Barrett]

A bit like Harold Wilson's famous 'a week is a long time in politics'

Except nobody HAS quoted this or anything else from Harold Wilson in the course of the present discussion, which makes it somewhat irrelevant. My point was that violent coercion, and Prussian (and later German) expansionism, were inseparable from the "art of the possible" that the rabidly anti-democratic Bismarck was talking about. Presumably you would exclude those aspects from whatever it is you're trying to say with your sloppy quoting.

[amateur51]

Many people like to quote Otto von Bismarck on politics being "the art of the possible" but not so many these days would quote his formerly equally influential "The great questions of the time will not be resolved by speeches and majority decisions—that was the great mistake of 1848 and 1849—but by iron and blood."

And there was me thinking it was Rab Butler

[eighthobstruction]

Never had you down as one of those dreadful right-wing sexists, 8th0 ... wot the heck are you on about? ... wimmin havin' babies? ...

A there's a Fascist of some kind lurking in all of us....I peer at mine daily....what an imp she is ....but if I give in to her at least the trains to hell may run on time....

[mangerton]

Except nobody HAS quoted this or anything else from Harold Wilson in the course of the present discussion, which makes it somewhat irrelevant.

Was it not "darling Harold" who said, "Don't confuse the issue with facts"? Or was that someone else?

[scottycelt]

Except nobody HAS quoted this or anything else from Harold Wilson in the course of the present discussion, which makes it somewhat irrelevant. My point was that violent coercion, and Prussian (and later German) expansionism, were inseparable from the "art of the possible" that the rabidly anti-democratic Bismarck was talking about. Presumably you would exclude those aspects from whatever it is you're trying to say with your sloppy quoting.

Oh, heavens, Mr Barrett, do forgive me!

I have always quite ignorantly considered that using a famous quotation to lend some weight to one's argument does not necessarily indicate wholesale approval for the originator. In fact, I suspect that quite a few of us may have used a quote without actually remembering (or even ever knowing) the origin of it, appalling as that may seem. These quotes are used in the context of the particular discussion and debate and tend to have a modern application, with little or no relevance to the original circumstances when first used.

So German expansionism and politics being 'the art of the possible' are 'inseparable', you seem to be saying. In much the same way as Harold Wilson's nuclear unilateralism was/is 'inseparable' from his 'a week's a long time in politics' quote, you mean?

Can you give sloppier members like myself any sloppy-less clues to help us spot the obvious inseparability which is most subtly and quite brilliantly hidden away here? Especially, as Ams51 so correctly points out, the first quotation has also been widely attributed to Rab Butler, whom I could never (and still can't) quite connect to any form of aggressive German expansionism?

[amateur51]

OEspecially, as Ams51 so correctly points out, the first quotation has also been widely attributed to Rab Butler, whom I could never (and still can't) quite connect to any form of aggressive German expansionism?

For how long have you been a-wrassling with this here conundrum, scotty?

[eighthobstruction]

aggressive German expansionism?

....Yep, some of those Germans can't half pack it away....Helmut Kohl for instance....

[scottycelt]

For how long have you been a-wrassling with this here conundrum, scotty?

It was rather more of a mighty shock than a particularly puzzling conundrum, amsey ...

[scottycelt]

Ok Scotty, you were distracted by the footer, so I will help.
My breakfast table envelope maths says it is something over 30 years at current rates, to get to 2 million. That is to get to 2 million !!

and that is with stagnant pay rates and a "flexible" zero hours sector on the rise.
but hey, we are on the right path. Right?

And fracking will save us all with limitless cheap clean energy.

Actually, team, I did actually respond to your query (#292) so the 'ahinton disease' appears to be spreading to unlikely quarters! And what footer are you talking about?

I shall take your word for your mathematical calculation. I'm sure it's 100% accurate. However, I am prepared to wager a bet that it will almost certainly be proved wrong as the chances of economic growth remaining constant for so many years irrespective of Harold Mac's 'events' is highly unlikely, to say the least.

And if you are correct, and as I suspect that (sadly) neither of us is likely to be around in 30 years time, we shall never, ever know and also be somewhat past caring?

[ahinton]

the 'ahinton disease' appears to be spreading

Might you care to describe this ailment, how it manifests itself and by what means it is allegedly "spreading" where?

[scottycelt]

Might you care to describe this ailment, how it manifests itself and by what means it is allegedly "spreading" where?

As ever, your guess here is undoubtedly a lot more informed than my own, ahinton ...

[teamsaint]

Actually, team, I did actually respond to your query (#292) so the 'ahinton disease' appears to be spreading to unlikely quarters! And what footer are you talking about?

I shall take your word for your mathematical calculation. I'm sure it's 100% accurate. However, I am prepared to wager a bet that it will almost certainly be proved wrong as the chances of economic growth remaining constant for so many years irrespective of Harold Mac's 'events' is highly unlikely, to say the least.

And if you are correct, and as I suspect that (sadly) neither of us is likely to be around in 30 years time, we shall never, ever know and also be somewhat past caring?

last nights game is available on Och aye Player, Scotty, as you seem to have missed it !!

Anyhow, Of course the figures will move around, but the point remains that they are coming down, currently at an infinitesimal rate.

I am reckoning on having a at least a fighting chance of your 30 year deadline, that's if we stop the fracking and the nukes of course !!

[ahinton]

As ever, your guess here is undoubtedly a lot more informed than my own, ahinton ...

Sorry, scotty, but that cannot be so, since I have not so guessed and am quite unable to do so, hence my questions to you (to which you have posted as above rather than make any attempt to answer them)...

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]