Democracy and Monarchy

[Pulcinella]

Don’t be cruel Pulc - just because she’s in a high position in the high church give her the benefit of being human and susceptible to the stress of the situation. She was addressing a large number in the Abbey and a few million more on TV, radio and big screens in many other places across the globe!

Have you never made a blooper and that hole wasn’t available for you to hide?

Not intended to be cruel in any way, but I was tickled by the idea of God having to endure UK royalty by resorting to the Holy Spirit.

Incidentally, I thought that Baroness Scotland read the first lesson very movingly indeed; our current prime minister the second less well, but at least we didn't have to endure Boris (who still looked a disgrace) reading it.

[teamsaint]

I profoundly disagree with this point that Justin Welby made.

“People of loving service are rare in any walk of life. “
I don’t think it is true, and it is disrespectful(!) to very many people not in the public eye.

[Ein Heldenleben]

I profoundly disagree with this point that Justin Welby made.

“People of loving service are rare in any walk of life. “
I don’t think it is true, and it is disrespectful(!) to very many people not in the public eye.

He followed up with “leaders of loving service are even rarer.” I thought that rather pointed….

[teamsaint]

He followed up with “leaders of loving service are even rarer.” I thought that rather pointed….

Yep, he did. But the point remains, IMO.

[french frank]

I agree about the monarchy being an embarrassment.

No, you don't agree with me because you have either unwittingly or provocatively misrepresented what I said. I didn't mean the monarchy was an embarrassment, but I, personally, felt slightly embarrassed by the 'Big Occasion' and in the unlikely event that I had been invited, I should have hidden under my bed (I didn't go to two graduation ceremonies either, though the first I went to as I thought otherwise I wouldn't get my degree.)

In response to depictions of public 'forelock-tugging', 'cap-doffing', 'fawning' and 'lickspittle' ("Doff your cap to Squire, boy", Give your seat to the lady, Oliver"), I felt this was missing an important nuance to the word 'respect' as if it necessarily implied any sort of social relationship, lower to upper.

The most interesting (up to date) definition I found was OED: 'Originally Caribbean. Also in form respec'. Approval, appreciation; compliments, esteem (without implication of deference).'

That seems to me to be closest to the centre of what many individuals are feeling. The Queen might have said, 'No, I don't want to do that job. Let Charles (aged 3½) do it, or Margaret, or one of the chaps.' She couldn't abolish the monarchy; as she said to Jacinda Ardern: "You just get on with it." A lot of people would identify with that response - if not the circumstances of the job.

[cloughie]

Scilly actually but that’s not relevant - we have freedom of speech though it has been hammered by this current, right wing government - imagine how much worse that could be had we got President Boris Johnson instead of a neutral head of state!

[cloughie]

Are you seriously suggesting that such places would have freedom of speech if they had a monarchy?


Not necessarily but there’s a better chance with a neutral head of state rather than one who has been politically elected!

My priorities at the moment are the cost of living and climate crises. Please explain to me what was remarkable about the Queen.

I can’t believe you are as cold-hearted as you appear to be as no explanation is required 70 years of evidence is there! Ido not wish to discuss it further!

[cloughie]

No, you don't agree with me because you have either unwittingly or provocatively misrepresented what I said. I didn't mean the monarchy was an embarrassment, but I, personally, felt slightly embarrassed by the 'Big Occasion' and in the unlikely event that I had been invited, I should have hidden under my bed (I didn't go to two graduation ceremonies either, though the first I went to as I thought otherwise I wouldn't get my degree.)

In response to depictions of public 'forelock-tugging', 'cap-doffing', 'fawning' and 'lickspittle' ("Doff your cap to Squire, boy", Give your seat to the lady, Oliver"), I felt this was missing an important nuance to the word 'respect' as if it necessarily implied any sort of social relationship, lower to upper.

The most interesting (up to date) definition I found was OED: 'Originally Caribbean. Also in form respec'. Approval, appreciation; compliments, esteem (without implication of deference).'

That seems to me to be closest to the centre of what many individuals are feeling. The Queen might have said, 'No, I don't want to do that job. Let Charles (aged 3½) do it, or Margaret, or one of the chaps.' She couldn't abolish the monarchy; as she said to Jacinda Ardern: "You just get on with it." A lot of people would identify with that response - if not the circumstances of the job.

Absolutely spot on ff - and for 70 years that job was done!

[cloughie]

As Bryn points out, actually we can't all say what we want, and here I would also point out that the present government and its immediate predecessors have done more than any previous ones in restricting people's right to protest in public. And remember the police response on Clapham Common last year to a peaceful vigil at the site of a woman's murder by a police officer. The only remarkable thing about the Queen is the fact that she was born into a fabulously wealthy and privileged family, and managed (with much assistance no doubt) to preserve the supposed legitimacy of that wealth and privilege in the eyes of the public for many decades, which I don't believe her son will be capable of for even the fraction of that time he has left. I guess that counts as remarkable in a way, but not in a good way, in my opinion.

Certainly there are republics in the world with more restrictions on freedom of speech than in the UK, but that is hardly an argument in favour of retaining the institution of monarchy, is it?

See my reply to Bryn!

[Bryn]

See my reply to Bryn!

Which appears not to exist. Surely it has not been removed by a HOST?

[cloughie]

Which appears not to exist.

Well there’s the twist!

[smittims]

Reading this thread has helped me understand just how cheesed-off (and why) people must be . I believe in constitutional monarchy and I liked the Queen , but I didn't watch the funeral as I think the media response to her death is absurdly overdone , unwarranted and ridiculous. So I understand the reaction of those who don't share even my respect for royalty.

[Ein Heldenleben]

Yet again a thread that is supposed to be about Radio Three during the period of National Mourning has been skewed towards a very few people’s personal animosity to the monarchy and the alleged disappearance of free speech over the last few years . Please can we keep on topic and move these posts to the ideas and politics sub forum ?

[Bryn]

Yet again a thread that is supposed to be about Radio Three during the period of National Mourning has been skewed towards a very few people’s personal animosity to the monarchy and the alleged disappearance of free speech over the last few years . Please can we keep on topic and move these posts to the ideas and politics sub forum ?

A nice example of the very issue you seek to get moved off this thread, what? Tiring of the ubiquity of UK media coverage of this event, I thought I'd try Al Jazeera. Guess what . . .

[RichardB]

as she said to Jacinda Ardern: "You just get on with it."

Quite so. No skills or qualifications necessary. How many people could have done that "job" just as well? Millions.