Democracy and Monarchy

[JohnSkelton]

Petroc Trelawny ended up in clink for less.

I think he ended up in clink for the equivalent of not having one of these http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/

[Serial_Apologist]

One of my ancestors was imprisoned in the Tower for taking part in the said rebellion.

One of my ancestors was in charge of guarding the princes in the Tower of London.

Didn't do a very good job of it!

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

The London Review of Books to which I no longer subscribe

was that because of its quality ams?

i find it variably interesting but sometimes essential .... but for me an expense that may well prove too much as time passes

[amateur51]

was that because of its quality ams?

i find it variably interesting but sometimes essential .... but for me an expense that may well prove too much as time passes

Twice a month LRB + monthly IRR + books & CDs - all too much really, Calum so I buy a copy every now & then - there's usually at least one good article/issue, often several, and letters page gets quite ... bitchy

[Flosshilde]

Twice a month LRB + monthly IRR + books & CDs - all too much really, Calum so I buy a copy every now & then - there's usually at least one good article/issue, often several, and letters page gets quite ... bitchy

So not much like here then

[Flosshilde]

(A) No. George I was invited (after a long hunt for a protestant descendant of Sofia of Hanover) in 1714, seven years after the joint Acts of Union which had abolished the Scottish and English parliaments. There was only one parliament to invite George I. It was the Catholics who objected, and James (the Old Pretender) launched a rebellion in 1715.

Well, true up to a point, but the search for a suitably protestant monarch had started before the Act of Union -

"Though both England and Scotland recognised Anne as their Queen, only the English Parliament had settled on Sophia, Electress of Hanover, as the heir. The Parliament of Scotland had not formally settled the succession question for the Scottish throne. In 1703, the Estates passed a bill that declared that their selection for Queen Anne's successor would not be the same individual as the successor to the English throne, unless England granted full freedom of trade to Scottish merchants in England and its colonies. At first Royal Assent was withheld but the following year Anne capitulated to the wishes of the Estates and assent was granted to the bill, which became the Act of Security 1704. In response the English Parliament passed measures which threatened to restrict Anglo-Scottish trade and cripple the Scottish economy if the Estates did not agree to the Hanoverian succession" (Wikipedia article on George I)

[amateur51]

So not much like here then

[Richard Tarleton]

A king who has performed a major service to democracy - during the attempted coup of 1981, King Juan Carlos of Spain sat up through the night telephoning the 11 Spanish captains-general, assuring them that Colonel Tejero's plot did not have his support, and commanding them to obey him, and made a television broadcast calling for unqualified support of democracy. His young son Felipe sat up through the night with him, so that he too should learn the responsibilities of kingship. He remarked that he knew democracy was secure in Spain when it elected its first socialist government under Felipe Gonzalez. The Spanish royal family have had their recent (and current) difficulties, but the monarchy contrasts strongly with our own protocol-obsessed lot as being affable, knowable and more in touch with the people.

[Beef Oven]

A king who has performed a major service to democracy - during the attempted coup of 1981, King Juan Carlos of Spain sat up through the night telephoning the 11 Spanish captains-general, assuring them that Colonel Tejero's plot did not have his support, and commanding them to obey him, and made a television broadcast calling for unqualified support of democracy. His young son Felipe sat up through the night with him, so that he too should learn the responsibilities of kingship. He remarked that he knew democracy was secure in Spain when it elected its first socialist government under Felipe Gonzalez. The Spanish royal family have had their recent (and current) difficulties, but the monarchy contrasts strongly with our own protocol-obsessed lot as being affable, knowable and more in touch with the people.

You live in Spain, right?

[Pabmusic]

Well, true up to a point, but the search for a suitably protestant monarch had started before the Act of Union -

"Though both England and Scotland recognised Anne as their Queen, only the English Parliament had settled on Sophia, Electress of Hanover, as the heir. The Parliament of Scotland had not formally settled the succession question for the Scottish throne. In 1703, the Estates passed a bill that declared that their selection for Queen Anne's successor would not be the same individual as the successor to the English throne, unless England granted full freedom of trade to Scottish merchants in England and its colonies. At first Royal Assent was withheld but the following year Anne capitulated to the wishes of the Estates and assent was granted to the bill, which became the Act of Security 1704. In response the English Parliament passed measures which threatened to restrict Anglo-Scottish trade and cripple the Scottish economy if the Estates did not agree to the Hanoverian succession" (Wikipedia article on George I)

Genuinely interesting. This is all before George I, of course - I knew he was the 63rd (or thereabouts) descendant of Sofia who was considered, but the first non-Catholic they could find.

[Richard Tarleton]

You live in Spain, right?

No, Beef, as you can see from my profile, but I've been many times (to most parts of the country) in the last 40 years, speak the language, correspond with friends in Spain, read the papers occasionally, etc.. Franco was still in charge when I went there first. For a 20th century monarch, JC has really achieved something, helping to consolidate democracy. He gets into trouble though.

[Flosshilde]

He gets into trouble though.

Something in common with the dook of embra.

[Richard Tarleton]

Something in common with the dook of embra.

All the same, I'm quite pleased I'm only two degrees of separation from Juan Carlos and Sofia - I spent a day with the owner of a large private estate in Extremadura (birdwatching I hasten to say) who sometimes hosted the royals on shooting trips.

[Flosshilde]

All the same, I'm quite pleased I'm only two degrees of separation from Juan Carlos and Sofia - I spent a day with the owner of a large private estate in Extremadura (birdwatching I hasten to say) who sometimes hosted the royals on shooting trips.

On the other hand, I'd like to have as much separation as possible from the UK royal family.

[vinteuil]

... I like Robt Crampton's take on recent developments:

"This weekend, the roundhead tendency got the first decent break we’ve had in ages. Buckingham Palace, by which I mean the Queen, has updated, in the light of Kate Middleton’s arrival, a document called the Order of Precedence in the royal household. Last revised in 2005 to accommodate Camilla, the Order of Precedence ranks all the members of the Royal Family, Queen at the top of course, the others jostling beneath.
This ranking matters to the Windsors because it clarifies who has to grovel to whom, in the form of a bow or a curtsy. Yes, they bow and curtsy to each other, not just to the Queen, not just for public show, but in private, even when they’re just chillin’ at Balmoral or Sandringham, shooting stuff. Sophie Wessex apparently has to bend the knee to pretty much everyone. Barely ever upright, poor Sophie.
How the Republican soul leaps at this intelligence. First, because it shows how deeply weird this family at the head and heart of our country actually is. Imagine bowing to, say, your brother-in-law whenever he walked into the room. Second because the update downgrades Kate, who is popular, in favour of the “blood princesses,” namely Anne, Beatrice, Eugenie and another one called Alexandra. Kate , the Queen has made clear, has to curtsy to them. Except when William is present, because then Kate, given the impressive sexism of the monarchy, assumes her husband’s status. So she curtsies to Anne when William’s not there, but not when he is. What Kate does if Anne walks in when William is struggling with constipation in the loo, all too audible but not visible, is anyone’s guess . . . although there’s probably a handbook on the correct protocol somewhere in Windsor Castle.
I wasn’t sure, incidentally, if this Alexandra person is the nice one who does Wimbledon and the FA Cup or the pushy one with the Nazi dad, so I checked, and it turns out she’s neither, she’s just some random cousin of the Queen. I don’t know if Alexandra’s popular or not, but Anne is respected rather than loved and Beatrice and Eugenie are only ever one bad outfit away from total derision. Not fair, perhaps, but then nothing about royalty is fair. "