Democracy and Monarchy

[Hornspieler]

And now we learn that the future Queen Catherine is instructed to curtsey to an adulteress and to two non functional "princesses" - offspring of a disgraced bankrupt divorcee and that Sophie, Countess of Wessex, daughter in law of the Queen, must also bend the knee to those "Princesses of the blood of Royalty and also to Camilla, who is not a princess.

And people wonder why I am a confirmed republican!

I have nothing against having the Queen as Head of State - she does a wonderful job for this country and throughout the world, but these nonsensical orders of precedence and the fawning upon those who do little or nothing to promote the interests of this country should not be subject to sycophantic worship by far worthier people who do a lot more to earn the admiration and respect of our citizens.
Time to move on. Keep the ceremonies and spectacular events which attract the admiration of the whole world, but let's get rid of this culture of a parasitic and unnecessary collection of hangers-on.

HS

[Richard Tarleton]

And now we learn that the future Queen Catherine is instructed to curtsey to an adulteress and to two non functional "princesses" - offspring of a disgraced bankrupt divorcee and that Sophie, Countess of Wessex, daughter in law of the Queen, must also bend the knee to those "Princesses of the blood of Royalty and also to Camilla, who is not a princess.

And people wonder why I am a confirmed republican!

I have nothing against having the Queen as Head of State - she does a wonderful job for this country and throughout the world, but these nonsensical orders of precedence and the fawning upon those who do little or nothing to promote the interests of this country should not be subject to sycophantic worship by far worthier people who do a lot more to earn the admiration and respect of our citizens.
Time to move on. Keep the ceremonies and spectacular events which attract the admiration of the whole world, but let's get rid of this culture of a parasitic and unnecessary collection of hangers-on.

HS

HS, there must be moments when Kate wonders if she hasn't made a ghastly mistake. Mind you she had long enough to think about it. Just when you thought Brenda might be mellowing, we hear this sort of thing.

They aren't royal, anyway - Victoria (I've mentioned this before) was the daughter of an extremely minor German princess, Victoire Duchess of Kent, and one of said princess's lovers, probably her secretary Sir John Conroy. She was not, beyond reasonable doubt, the daughter of her putative father Edward Duke of Kent, who was almost certainly infertile besides being (through heredity) a carrier of the porphyria gene. Victoria was a carrier of haemophilia, which her mother was not, but not porphyria.

So it's all a load of rubbish.

[Flosshilde]

???? To whom do you refer?

That well-known siamese (or conjoined) monarch William'nMary were invited by the English parliament to replace James II, who was the monarch by descent. George I was, arguably, also invited by the English parliament, but not, at first, accepted by the Scottish parliament. The parliament was, in these cases, the electorate.

Oliver Cromwell was succeeded by his son, which might have been a first step in establishing a hereditary 'presidency'


But it is, as Richard Tarleton says, all a load of rubbish.

[Pabmusic]

And now we learn that the future Queen Catherine is instructed to curtsey to an adulteress and to two non functional "princesses" - offspring of a disgraced bankrupt divorcee and that Sophie, Countess of Wessex, daughter in law of the Queen, must also bend the knee to those "Princesses of the blood of Royalty and also to Camilla, who is not a princess.

I think that's a little unfair. "The future Queen Catherine" will (I suppose) kneel to "the future Queen Camilla" because her husband is second in line to the throne, whereas Camilla's is first. That distinction is important to some. As for Camilla's not being a princess, well actually she is. As the wife of the Prince of Wales her title should be Princess of Wales and, although before the marriage it was announced that she would take the title Princess consort, she agreed to be known by another title: Duchess of Cornwall. (Her husband is the Duke.) She is expected to become Queen consort when Charles becomes King. The obvious fudge is out of sensitivity () to Diana's memory.

As for the flappers (is that right, or did I hear wrong?) of York, they are princesses because they are the daughters of a prince. Edward (who is also a prince) chose not to be known as 'prince' and apparently turned down a dukedom; he's an earl and his daughter is (properly) Lady whatever-her-name-is. Anne apparently did not want her children growing up with any titles, and so they have none. Wonderful what you can find on the web!

[Beef Oven]

And now we learn that the future Queen Catherine is instructed to curtsey to an adulteress and to two non functional "princesses" - offspring of a disgraced bankrupt divorcee and that Sophie, Countess of Wessex, daughter in law of the Queen, must also bend the knee to those "Princesses of the blood of Royalty and also to Camilla, who is not a princess.

And people wonder why I am a confirmed republican!

I have nothing against having the Queen as Head of State - she does a wonderful job for this country and throughout the world, but these nonsensical orders of precedence and the fawning upon those who do little or nothing to promote the interests of this country should not be subject to sycophantic worship by far worthier people who do a lot more to earn the admiration and respect of our citizens.
Time to move on. Keep the ceremonies and spectacular events which attract the admiration of the whole world, but let's get rid of this culture of a parasitic and unnecessary collection of hangers-on.

HS

Kate is an intelligent adult and knows exactly what she's doing. Don't worry about her, she'll be just fine.

[Flosshilde]

Presumably Camilla is not a 'Princess of the Blood Royal' () which I take to mean 'by birth'.

Anne is the most sensible of the lot. I'd vote for her as president.


It's all a load of rubbish.

[Pabmusic]

(A) George I was, arguably, also invited by the English parliament, but not, at first, accepted by the Scottish parliament.

(B) But it is, as Richard Tarleton says, all a load of rubbish.

(A) No. George I was invited (after a long hunt for a protestant descendant of Sofia of Hanover) in 1714, seven years after the joint Acts of Union which had abolished the Scottish and English parliaments. There was only one parliament to invite George I. It was the Catholics who objected, and James (the Old Pretender) launched a rebellion in 1715.

(B) Absolutely.

[Pabmusic]

Presumably Camilla is not a 'Princess of the Blood Royal' () which I take to mean 'by birth'.

Anne is the most sensible of the lot. I'd vote for her as president.


It's all a load of rubbish.

That's correct. She's a great-great (etc) granddaughter of Alice Keppel, who was Edward VII's mistress for many years. You see, these people are very strong on heredity.

[vinteuil]

Presumably Camilla is not a 'Princess of the Blood Royal' () which I take to mean 'by birth'.

Anne is the most sensible of the lot. I'd vote for her as president.


It's all a load of rubbish.

That's correct. She's a great-great (etc) granddaughter of Alice Keppel, who was Edward VII's mistress for many years. You see, these people are very strong on heredity.

I presume you mean Camilla rather than Anne....

[Pabmusic]

I presume you mean Camilla rather than Anne....

I meant Camilla, but with these very mixed families...well...you never know.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

There was only one parliament to invite George I. It was the Catholics who objected, and James (the Old Pretender) launched a rebellion in 1715.

One of my ancestors was imprisoned in the Tower for taking part in the said rebellion.

[Pabmusic]

One of my ancestors was imprisoned in the Tower for taking part in the said rebellion.

I'm pleased that he survived long enough to give rise to the Eine Alpensinfonie branch of the family.

[aka Calum Da Jazbo]

i feel that constitutional arrangements should have the properties described by Dan Dennett here

[amateur51]

David Runciman has written a very good article about democracy and oligarchs in Britain in The London Review of Books to which I no longer subscribe and thus can not link to.

However here is a review of the same book that Runciman's review considers:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/apr/29/new-few-ferdinand-mount-review

I'll keep ferretting to see if I can get into LRB's site for a link.

A-ha! http://www.exacteditions.com/read/lo...31393/3/3?dps=

[salymap]

Just all be thankful that you can express your views on the royal ladies so freely in this country.

Petroc Trelawny ended up in clink for less.