Living for ever? How long would you want to live?

[Pulcinella]

With phrases such as 'Long live the King' or even 'May the King live for ever' being in some people's minds, research on anti-ageing drugs is quite apposite.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/how-to-live-longer-some-billionaires-are-banking-on-blueberries-jh83627x0?shareToken=91d39b3ee1d28030fe4355efc00fcc21

If you've looked at my profile, you'll have seen that solving the crystal structure of rapamycin formed part of my PhD research. At the time, it was thought of as a possible treatment for infections such as thrush (Candida albicans), but it proved too toxic, and it wasn't until some 30 or so years later that its properties in helping avoid organ transplant rejection (for which it is now used routinely) came to light.

Now it is one of the drugs being tested for its anti-ageing properties.

But how long would YOU like to live for?
Part of me would like to live long enough to see how hindsight treats this (to me disastrous) period of UK (and indeed world) history: will we reverse our stupidity and rejoin the EU (if they'd have us, of course); will Johnson and Trump finally be vilified?
Another part thinks that I've had a pretty good life of already over the three score years and ten, and that's quite enough.

[smittims]

This is a question I've often contemplated. I think it is the knowledge that we must one day die that makes us relish and value life so much. So much of what we find beautiful in nature (autumn leaves, for instance) is caused by the need for living things to die. Eternal life would be depressing, aimless. Yet our society has tried to abolish death by keeping people alive artificially, and to treat any death as a cause for complaint. Someone must be to blame.

While I don't want to live for ever , and certainly not into an old age marked by mental or physical disability, I don't go to the other extreme pursued by some . Katherine Mansfield, for instance, strikes me as what Woody Allen calls kamikaze woman, determined not only to kill herself but to do it by crashing into you.

I'm by nature a melancholy, even pessimistic person, prone to anxiety; but recently I've experienced a notable joy in living , maybe subconsciously prompted by recovery from the worst illness I've had in 70 years. I know and frequently remark that I don't expect to live more than another ten years, but I don't find this sad; it means the pressure is off now and I can relax and enjoy life.

One of my sons, on reachijng thirty, complained thathe was 'getting old. What's good about being old , Dad?'
'You don't have to worry about the future', I said .

[pastoralguy]

Oddly, enough, my first thought was of Billy Connelly who, whilst talking about reincarnation, remarked ‘people who think they were reincarnated also talk about being Queen of Egypt. No one ever swept the floor in a Singer Sewing Machine factory!’ I suppose my point is that if one had the money to have an exceptional life then living, if not forever, then certainly for longer than the traditional ‘three score and ten’ could be quite appealing.

I work night shift as a staff nurse in a care home and had a very odd experience the other night. One of our clients is a gentleman who is one of the most distinguished people of his generation. (I can’t be more specific since it wouldn’t be difficult to work out who it might be, suffice to say he had a LOT of media attention and was Knighted for his work). Alas, he suffers from Parkinson’s disease and is a shadow of his former self. He is unable to communicate, is doubly incontinent, requires to be fed and has, in my opinion, absolutely no quality of life whatsoever. Oddly enough, I was attending to him over the weekend when a documentary came on the television where he was featured prominently. It was unbelievable to compare the genius, and I don’t use that word lightly, talking with authority on the television with the remnants of the man in front of me and it struck me how unbelievably cruel life can be. We’re of a similar age and it’s amazing that nature would choose to destroy such a person whereas a mediocrity such as myself has avoided major illness. And let’s not talk about criminals!

I work with so many people who are but former shadows of their form selves where the body continues in various states but their minds are absolutely destroyed. So, would someone want to live forever in such circumstances? Already, we have residents who are kept alive by being fed through tubes in their stomachs but have absolutely NO quality of life whatsoever. One woman kept alive thus has developed a tumour and is in constant pain but is non-verbal and has no capacity to make decisions but, because she is very wealthy, it suits her Next of Kin to keep her alive.

I feel that living a long life is possibly not all it pretends to be. And anyway, how do we know how long we’re going to live for? When I was a student nurse I did a placement in the A&E department of the Royal Infirmary. As I stood at the bus stop at 06.00 in the morning I used to contemplate that, like millions of others, I was starting my day but some people would end up in said A&E department and a few would not be leaving hospital at all.

[teamsaint]

A big subject , and a great post from PG above but for those who haven't read it, a look at Gulliver's Travels is apposite.

( as an aside, haven't Trump and Johnson been widely vilified ?)

I am always a bit troubled by the " unfinished business" approach, which is both understandable, yet needs dealing with for obvious reasons.

[Belgrove]

Thank you for that moving and sane post pastoralguy.

I have been in contact with leaders of the principal political parties to learn if they intend to seriously consider initiating a debate on assisted dying rather than letting it be kicked into the long grass, being aired only through private member’s bill in Parliament. The PM replied promptly via the Department of Justice to say there were no plans come the next election. Sir Keir Starmer has remained silent, even when reminded by me and prompted further to issue a response by my local MP. If politicians are unwilling to engage on this issue, then why not have a People’s Forum, like Ireland had on abortion, to at least get the issue aired and to appreciate the sides of the arguments from a philosophical and legal perspective. It seems that unless ideas emerge from the closed world of party political policy silos, politicians are unwilling to engage with issues they perceive as not being vote winners.

I contemplated whether to enquire of Starmer how a future Labour Government would consider and respond to the challenges posed by AgI, but doubt whether he nor anyone in his circle has the capacity to comprehend.

[richardfinegold]

Some really great posts here. As a Health Care Provider it is a question that has long been of interest, and then as someone who has had some major health scares in the past 15 years I’ve had cause to examine it from the other end as well. The prospect of dying doesn’t scare me but the potential for being disabled and a burden to others terrifies. Seeing my 95 year old mother adjust well to an assisted living facility has been a surprise. She fought going into it, and refused to acknowledge the necessity for it, but has adjusted to the staff and other residents and enthusiastically participates in the panalopy of activities they offer. I have found that for patients, as well as my mother, a touch of dementia can be helpful, as they don’t realize to what extent they have lost their previous abilities. It is harder for the mentally sharp but physically impaired, or the severely demented.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This is an important debate.

Living a long life is great, just as long as you're healthy and able to live a good life. Once you lose your ability to function reasonably independently, it goes downhill rapidly. Charities supporting the various ailments common in old age tell us that more needs to be done to end death by heart disease - or dementia - or cancer. But avoiding one only increases the likelihood of facing one of the others. Keeping people alive artificially against all the odds can be cruel. Both of of my parents lived into their 90s, but suffered a long and unhappy decline.

My friends say I'm a freak of nature, being more physically active than many who are decades younger, but I know this cannot go on for ever; nor should it. The world is overpopulated already. Once I become a burden, I want to go without question.

[JasonPalmer]

The family on my mothers side tend to die young, old on my fathers side so i try enjoy life as i go in case i never make it to retirement. Like the idea of being in an old persons home with a nice roberts radio to listen to radio 3.

[Frances_iom]

... Like the idea of being in an old persons home with a nice roberts radio to listen to radio 3.

Unless you have considerable savings and can afford an up market home any council supported old folks home is likely to have day time TV playing in the day lounge with an audience with many in various stages of dementia.

[Petrushka]

Unless you have considerable savings and can afford an up market home any council supported old folks home is likely to have day time TV playing in the day lounge with an audience with many in various stages of dementia.

My mother would have been 93 today and, sadly, this was her fate for the last three years of her life. I've let it be known that if this should happen to me then anyone is welcome to push me off a cliff.

[pastoralguy]

The family on my mothers side tend to die young, old on my fathers side so i try enjoy life as i go in case i never make it to retirement. Like the idea of being in an old persons home with a nice roberts radio to listen to radio 3.

I have only lost my temper once in my place of employment and that was when a care assistant changed a resident’s radio station from Radio3 to Radio1! My great concern is that, should I end up in a care home somebody will look at my notes and say ‘PG likes music’ and I’ll be placed next to a radio playing wall to wall Jimmy Shand…

[Frances_iom]

... My great concern is that, should I end up in a care home somebody will look at my notes and say ‘PG likes music’ and I’ll be placed next to a radio playing wall to wall Jimmy Shand…

given R3's trajectory this may well be what you hear on R3 devoted to playing the 'classic oldies' in an era when enjoyment of classical music as we know it today has become a niche occupied only by lone individuals regarded by many as somewhat deranged.

[oddoneout]

Unless you have considerable savings and can afford an up market home any council supported old folks home is likely to have day time TV playing in the day lounge with an audience with many in various stages of dementia.

No guarantee that won't be the case in a non-council home - which seem to be the majority now. Sadly the "you get what you pay for" mantra doesn't necessarily apply when staff(even if available) are seen as undesirable overheads and care homes are just a means of making money.
The thought of extended old age has no appeal for me, I just hope I pop my clogs before either physical or mental incapacity takes over.

[Mal]

I worry most about having a couple of decades with chronic illness - diabetes, angina, that kind of thing - something all too common in modern Britain. We might have increased life expectancy, but what's the quality of life going to be like? Recently, I thought I'd make an attempt to get fitter by walking more - and have now ended up with very sore joints! (Hopefully, I just need to rest, but it gives me some idea what chronic arthritis might be like...)

[Bryn]

I worry most about having a couple of decades with chronic illness - diabetes, angina, that kind of thing - something all too common in modern Britain. We might have increased life expectancy, but what's the quality of life going to be like? Recently, I thought I'd make an attempt to get fitter by walking more - and have now ended up with very sore joints! (Hopefully, I just need to rest, but it gives me some idea what chronic arthritis might be like...)

As far as Type 2 diabetes is concerned, it can sometimes be reversed through diet changes. It's worked well for me and without my feeling any regret for the changes. My two most recent blood tests show me in remission and below the 'pre-diabetes' level. Maintaining mobility is pretty much essential for joint health. If I do not get out for a good long walk each day, I soon feel the negative effects in my joints.