Coronation Chicken

[kernelbogey]

...I think I've drifted from a lifetime of relative indifference to the Royal Family to somethng close to apathetic opposition.

And I didn't even mean the bit about a revolution on Sunday afternoon... I don't think I could be arsed to go round there.

Britain is essentially feudal and there will be no bigger reminder of that than the coming weekend’s pantomime.

What FF says is well presented, although I don't see being anti-monarchy as a secular religion: I agree that the Coronation emphasises the feudal society we still have. It's not just the changing of the effing guard, the House of Lords and all the other feudal paraphernalia: it's the way we've seen in the last 13 years those who are essentially hangers-on to the royal [sic] family, the Camerons, Johnsons and all the other etonian mob exercising their entitlement - which they presumably think entitles them to overcharge us for energy, polllute our rivers and run the BBC.

[Pulcinella]

Plenty of countries have worse records. One point worth considering is the subject of the dissent, here and in other countries, eg topically Russia. As far as the coronation is concerned, everyone is free to ignore the 'celebration'. Many - yes, millions - will positively want to enjoy the day and everything associated with it (even if it's only an extra Bank Holiday). That's the problem: people feel very strongly about this on both sides. Is it, as suggested here, the fact of dissenting, protesting against the monarchy which is the issue? Or is it doing it among a crowd of supporters? One man throws eggs at the King, others shout 'Kill him. Kick him to death.'

To me, both sides are vehemently espousing irrelevance. There is an argument that (constitutional) monarchy guarantees stability. There is an argument that if the monarchy were abolished it would be a significant step towards a more equal society. I think both arguments are moonshine, just secular religions or beliefs which cause conflict, not right v. wrong, better v worse. But that may be wrong too.

What does seem to be the case is that individuals get angry more often and more violently than in the past.

The Brexit vote seemed somehow to legitimise such behaviour, imo.

[vinteuil]

What does seem to be the case is that individuals get angry more often and more violently than in the past.

... well, 1793-1794 in France and 1848-1849 across Europe had their moments. The reviews I have seen of the excellent Christopher Clark's new book - Revolutionary Spring: Fighting for a New World 1848-1849 - draw parallels with the Europe of today...

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[EnemyoftheStoat]

This oath of allegiance is a grotesque, indeed bizarre mis-step. ...

The whole event will hold as much interest for me as an afternoon repeat of Cash in the Attic.

I'm with you on both points. The oath is indeed a mis-step, and maybe a testament to a deep-seated insecurity on the monarch's part. More worryingly, let's see if MPs, current or potential, aren't questioned about it by the press and vilified if they give the wrong answer. There's supposed to be a GE coming up...

[EnemyoftheStoat]

It's a start I suppose.

Ah, finally a Brexit benefit!

[RichardB]

There is an argument that if the monarchy were abolished it would be a significant step towards a more equal society.

Actually the argument is that there can be no society of equals in which a hereditary monarchy exists, which would seem to be a pretty solid fact rather than a belief.

What does seem to be the case is that individuals get angry more often and more violently than in the past.

It's a start I suppose.

[muzzer]

Brexit has caused people to feel and in some cases act more violently - quite understandsbly! And as pointed out above, populsit tories have been rubbing everybody’s noses in it. The monarchy has not benefited from this at all. No one would have dared or thought to egg the Queen. But her son has very little of her authority. And yet, throwing eggs at him is not going to change anything.

It’s all so thoroughly depressing.

[gurnemanz]

Just caught up on this thread and will offer my tuppence worth.

I'm six months younger than the King and can just about remember the previous coronation. We had a song called "In a Golden Coach" on a scratchy 78 and I was given a toy model of it and a souvenir mug which I stil have. Presumably his memories are also a bit vague. His home near Tetbury is quite near to us and one thing in his favour, as far as we are concerned, is that his love of classical music led to his patronage of the concert series 'Music in Country Churches' which have for a long time taken place in churches around this area. We have been to many of them over the years and he is usually in attendance. They feature top performers - one of the first we went to was a young Evgeny Kissin in Malmesbury Abbey in 1995.

I sympathise with others about the proposed oath of allegiance. It's surely a misguided decision to invite citizens to acknowledge a supernatural deity, in whom only an increasingly small proportion of the population actually believe. Indeed, if the God on whose supposed will his right to be an earthly monarch is based does not exist (my view), he has lost his kingly raison d'être by his own definition.

I shall be singing the words 'May the King live for ever' as part of Zadok on Monday in a celebratory coronation concert in our town's church along with our Choral Soc and other local choirs. A deliberately bombastic and obviously literally meaningless turn of phrase which I shall sing enthusiastically. It is absurd to ask people to formally utter it as part of a solemn oath.

[gurnemanz]

Brexit has caused people to feel and in some cases act more violently - quite understandsbly! And as pointed out above, populsit tories have been rubbing everybody’s noses in it. The monarchy has not benefited from this at all. No one would have dared or thought to egg the Queen. But her son has very little of her authority. And yet, throwing eggs at him is not going to change anything.

It’s all so thoroughly depressing.

I'm a remoaner fundamentalist, not violent as yet but still thoroughly depressed. Pathetic, I know, but in public loos I still prefer to dry my hands on my trousers rather than use a Dyson machine.

[vinteuil]

I'm a remoaner fundamentalist, not violent as yet but still thoroughly depressed. Pathetic, I know, but in public loos I still prefer to dry my hands on my trousers rather than use a Dyson machine.

... good man!

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[muzzer]

I draw the line at wetting my trousers to spite my hands ;) Or somesuch.

[muzzer]

The pop elements of the concert are woeful, though. Whatever happened to all those acts so beloved of The Princes Trust? Too old?

[vinteuil]

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/01/the-pledge-of-allegiance-to-the-king-is-nonsense-and-seems-designed-to-incense-everyone

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[french frank]

What FF says is well presented, although I don't see being anti-monarchy as a secular religion: I agree that the Coronation emphasises the feudal society we still have. It's not just the changing of the effing guard, the House of Lords and all the other feudal paraphernalia: it's the way we've seen in the last 13 years those who are essentially hangers-on to the royal [sic] family, the Camerons, Johnsons and all the other etonian mob exercising their entitlement - which they presumably think entitles them to overcharge us for energy, polllute our rivers and run the BBC.

Thus far I follow you entirely though I didn't mean (or I think say) that being anti-monarchy was a secular religion. I referred to the belief that abolishing the monarchy was a significant step towards equality. RichardB regards it as a 'solid fact' that there can be no society of equals as long as there is a hereditary monarchy. But he does, apparenty, believe there can be a society of equals. I think it would be a good thing but I am by no means sure such a society can exist.

But I stand in need of a lesson here: when Marx said "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" that necessarily implies that abilities and needs are different - and unequal. So is the slogan the first step towards the equal society or is does there remain a continual need for readjustment (even after monarchy and capitalism have been abolished)?

[pastoralguy]

Mrs PG contributed to a ‘debate’ on Nicky Campbell’s Radio5 Live show re swearing allegiance to the king. Personally, I was annoyed she resisted my exertions to mention my objection that Bo Holten and Musica Ficta weren’t invited to participate.