Balance within the BBC

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  • oddoneout
    Full Member
    • Nov 2015
    • 9273

    Originally posted by french frank View Post
    "There is no huge influx. We take far fewer refugees than other major European countries. This is just an immeasurably cruel policy directed at the most vulnerable people in language that is not dissimilar to that used by Germany in the 30s ... "
    Language which included reference to forcible removal of Jews to another country. Madagascar in 1930s Germany, Rwanda for similarly unwanted people in 2023 UK.

    Meanwhile, an interesting twist? https://www.theguardian.com/politics...bbc-complaints

    Comment

    • Ein Heldenleben
      Full Member
      • Apr 2014
      • 6932

      Originally posted by oddoneout View Post
      Language which included reference to forcible removal of Jews to another country. Madagascar in 1930s Germany, Rwanda for similarly unwanted people in 2023 UK.

      Meanwhile, an interesting twist? https://www.theguardian.com/politics...bbc-complaints
      For those that are interested it’s almost certainly a breach of the BBC’s copyright. The Home Office can’t claim fair dealing.

      Comment

      • RichardB
        Banned
        • Nov 2021
        • 2170

        All this reminds me of Prof Chomsky's sage words: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."

        Comment

        • vinteuil
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 12936

          .

          .... following from RichardB's apt quote from Chomsky -



          .

          Comment

          • french frank
            Administrator/Moderator
            • Feb 2007
            • 30456

            And there's also Hanlon's razor. In general we do home in on what we feel is important, what we feel we have the competence to deal with.

            Much enjoyed this observation from The Guardian's Archie Bland:

            'There’s a great BBC ad that sets out the case for its importance as a universal public broadcaster: “The BBC is something that belongs to all of us,” it rousingly concludes ... The agony of the current row is that in an alleged attempt to demonstrate commitment to that principle, the BBC’s leadership has instead shown that i) it has very senior presenters who really dislike the government, and ii) that the Conservatives have successfully insinuated their own representatives into its senior leadership.'

            Then, says Bland, there's Lord Sugar tweeting about Mick Lynch. Perhaps his lordship should, erm, take an early bath? (Don't miss the comments beneath his tweet!)

            Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
            .

            .... following from RichardB's apt quote from Chomsky -



            .
            Originally posted by RichardB View Post
            All this reminds me of Prof Chomsky's sage words: "The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate."
            It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

            Comment

            • LHC
              Full Member
              • Jan 2011
              • 1561

              Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
              Only in the 30s?

              And if that is so, all the more reason why she should know better than to mimic their dehumanising rhetoric!
              She has also refused to apologise for her language even when she was confronted by a holocaust survivor, who I suspect has a much better understanding of what the Nazis did than Braverman or Lineker

              "The home secretary has said she will not apologise for her language, after a Holocaust survivor criticised her for describing migrants as an "invasion".

              Joan Salter, 83, confronted Suella Braverman during a meeting in her Fareham constituency on Friday.

              She said the home secretary's rhetoric reminded her of the language the Nazis used to justify murdering her family.

              But Ms Braverman said her language demonstrated the "scale of the problem" with illegal migration.

              In footage of the exchange, provided by the charity Freedom from Torture, Ms Salter said: "When I hear you using words against refugees like 'swarms' and an 'invasion', I am reminded of the language used to dehumanise and justify the murder of my family and millions of others.

              "Why do you find the need to use that kind of language?"

              Ms Braverman thanked Ms Salter for her question and said she "shared a huge amount of concern and sympathy" over the "challenge" of illegal immigration.

              She said her own parents were not born in Britain and "owe everything to this country".

              However, she added: "There is a huge problem that we have right now when it comes to illegal migration, the scale of which we have not known before.

              "I won't apologise for the language that I have used to demonstrate the scale of the problem."

              And is others have pointed out, there is no 'invasion' and we take far fewer immigrants than other EU nations. The UNHCR has also criticised the Tories' rhetoric around immigration in the same terms, so Lineker is in very good company in recognising the similarities in Braverman's language and that used by the National Socialists in the 30s.
              "I do not approve of anything that tampers with natural ignorance. Ignorance is like a delicate exotic fruit; touch it and the bloom is gone. The whole theory of modern education is radically unsound. Fortunately in England, at any rate, education produces no effect whatsoever. If it did, it would prove a serious danger to the upper classes, and probably lead to acts of violence in Grosvenor Square."
              Lady Bracknell The importance of Being Earnest

              Comment

              • Bryn
                Banned
                • Mar 2007
                • 24688

                Originally posted by Joseph K View Post
                Only in the 30s?

                And if that is so, all the more reason why she should know better than to mimic their dehumanising rhetoric!
                Quite! Her grinning evasiveness, when interviewed by Nick Robinson, spoke volumes regarding her lack of understanding of the essence of Lineker's criticism of her inflammatory language.

                Comment

                • Maclintick
                  Full Member
                  • Jan 2012
                  • 1083

                  Originally posted by vinteuil View Post
                  .

                  .... following from RichardB's apt quote from Chomsky -



                  .
                  ...The Lineker Affair also provides a perfect example of Godwin's Law...



                  Recently, MP Andrew Bridgen miraculously scored a triple hit with his enthusiastic embrace of Godwin, Hanlon, and outing himself as a perfect exemplar of the Dunning-Kruger Effect...

                  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

                  Comment

                  • Maclintick
                    Full Member
                    • Jan 2012
                    • 1083

                    Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                    Quite! Her grinning evasiveness, when interviewed by Nick Robinson, spoke volumes regarding her lack of understanding of the essence of Lineker's criticism of her inflammatory language.
                    The parallels with Germany in the 30s drawn by Gary Lineker are brought into starker relief when one considers that the inflammatory language deployed by Braverman and others in her party, egged on by the far-right tabloids, has fuelled coordinated attacks on migrants such as those in Liverpool and Rotherham.

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 30456

                      Originally posted by LHC View Post
                      'Ms Braverman thanked Ms Salter for her question and said she "shared a huge amount of concern and sympathy" over the "challenge" of illegal immigration.'
                      She has a huge amount of concern and sympathy ... for the challenge posed by illegal immigration. And here endeth the concern and sympathy.
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • eighthobstruction
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2010
                        • 6449

                        Originally posted by Maclintick View Post
                        The parallels with Germany in the 30s drawn by Gary Lineker are brought into starker relief when one considers that the inflammatory language deployed by Braverman and others in her party, egged on by the far-right tabloids, has fuelled coordinated attacks on migrants such as those in Liverpool and Rotherham.
                        bong ching

                        Comment

                        • DracoM
                          Host
                          • Mar 2007
                          • 12986

                          Originally posted by Maclintick View Post
                          The parallels with Germany in the 30s drawn by Gary Lineker are brought into starker relief when one considers that the inflammatory language deployed by Braverman and others in her party, egged on by the far-right tabloids, has fuelled coordinated attacks on migrants such as those in Liverpool and Rotherham.

                          Comment

                          • Maclintick
                            Full Member
                            • Jan 2012
                            • 1083

                            On the broader question of BBC balance, the relationship between the Corporation and the government of the day -- and as EH commented in an earlier post, this applies to both the current Tory and previous New Labour administrations -- is accurately summed up in an aphorisim coined by Teddy Roosevelt, which hung on the wall of the office of Richard Nixon's chief counsel Charles ('Chuck') Colson -- ​"When you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow".

                            Comment

                            • vinteuil
                              Full Member
                              • Nov 2010
                              • 12936

                              .



                              .

                              Comment

                              • gradus
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 5622

                                The article recycles criticisms heard before. It would be more interesting had it suggested a better system of protecting broadcasting impartiality.

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