Axing of BBC Singers and related cuts

[Vox Humana]

It had little to do with Thatcher or Callaghan . It was the Treasury who decided to write it off against the national debt rather than invest for the future. We also had for decades the benefit of cheap energy - a huge cost advantage for our industry. Now the chickens are coming home to roost and our energy costs are amongst the highest in the world. All totally predictable.

But the Treasury can hardly have been acting unilaterally without government endorsement. Anyway, whatever contracts and agreements were in place, the simple fact is that Britain was receiving very handsome revenues from oil which were, in effect, squandered.

[vinteuil]

It had little to do with Thatcher or Callaghan . It was the Treasury who decided to write it off...

... surely the Treasury carries out the wishes of the government of the day? The official title of the prime minister is First Lord of the Treasury

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[Ein Heldenleben]

But the Treasury can hardly have been acting unilaterally without government endorsement. Anyway, whatever contracts and agreements were in place, the simple fact is that Britain was receiving very handsome revenues from oil which were, in effect, squandered.

I wouldn’t say they were squandered .They were used to offset the day to day running costs of public services by reducing debt.The alternative would be - increasing debt (which is just kicking the can or bill down the road) , cutting services , or increasing taxes. We also had the benefit of cheap energy. The Norwegians sacrificed present day consumption to put the money in a sovereign wealth fund. I believe that now has enough in it to pay for the education and fire budgets just out of earned income ! Ie without touching the capital .
Tax as a percentage of GDP in Norway is 42.1 per cent. In the UK it’s now the highest it’s been outside war at 39% - it’s been as low as 34% . Over the decades those 3 - 8 percent differences really add up which is why I’m guessing public services in Norway are considerably better than here. You pays your money and takes your choice. How many Uk political parties go into elections vowing to improve public service through higher taxes ? And win ?

[Frances_iom]

My own experience - probably not typical - was as a Friend of ROH (bottom tier of the friends which has more layers than a Spanish onion) was that in the year pre Covid I was unable to get USlips seats for a good percentage of the performances - I kept my membership during covid but once things re-opened I didn't fancy having to wear masks in theatre + on transport and a friend who generally went with me became too ill hence after near 25 years as a Friend I decided I didn't fancy the experience thus got out of the habit whereas in pre-Covid I would probably get to RoH maybe 20 times a year.

[vinteuil]

My own experience - probably not typical... /... / ... in pre-Covid I would probably get to RoH maybe 20 times a year.

... coming in from the isle of Man - that is indeed impressive!

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[Ein Heldenleben]

... surely the Treasury carries out the wishes of the government of the day? The official title of the prime minister is First Lord of the Treasury

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Maybe but the Attlee government did pretty much the same thing with Marshall aid. Unlike the Germans who used it for public investment.You have to go back to the time when governments were obsessed with balance of payments crises and the level of public debt to understand why the Treasury always gets its way no matter what the political complexion of government. The irony is that outside war our balance payments of deficit has rarely been higher and neither has the debt to gdp ratio. They haven’t done a very good job really.

[vinteuil]

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/22/britain-arts-institutions-cuts

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[Serial_Apologist]

Maybe but the Attlee government did pretty much the same thing with Marshall aid. Unlike the Germans who used it for public investment.You have to go back to the time when governments were obsessed with balance of payments crises and the level of public debt to understand why the Treasury always gets its way no matter what the political complexion of government. The irony is that outside war our balance payments of deficit has rarely been higher and neither has the debt to gdp ratio. They haven’t done a very good job really.

This idea that productivity is dependent on physical hard work dies hard. My understanding is that one of the conditions of Marshall Aid was that businesses were expected to continue pooling the fruits of cap-in-hand, but that they instead instead reverted to the true spirit of British competitive individualism and the sun never setting on the empire and failed to come up with the investment in more productive new technology needed to compete with the re-tooled industries of Europe, putting Britain at a long-term disadvantage.

[Ein Heldenleben]

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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/22/britain-arts-institutions-cuts

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If Labour get in , which at the moment looks odds-on , it will be interesting to see whether these cuts (both Arts Council and BBC will be reversed. I am not holding my breath . The best likelihood is some form of RPI linkage but as for restoring past cuts I just don’t think it’ll happen.

[Ein Heldenleben]

This idea that productivity is dependent on physical hard work dies hard. My understanding is that one of the conditions of Marshall Aid was that businesses were expected to continue pooling the fruits of cap-in-hand, but that they instead instead reverted to the true spirit of British competitive individualism and the sun never setting on the empire and failed to come up with the investment in more productive new technology needed to compete with the re-tooled industries of Europe, putting Britain at a long-term disadvantage.

Unless you know better I think Marshall Aid was used to partly write off our enormous post war debt. German debt was completely written off as part of the post war settlement . But as 40 - 50 per cent of its economic capacity had been destroyed there was little alternative other than the mass starvation of the German population . If you want a capitalist conspiracy you could argue that one US war aim was to hobble the British Empire and the economic advantages it gave us in terms of cheap raw materials and labour . But WW2 bankrupted this country and we weren’t in a position to argue with US terms .

[Frances_iom]

... coming in from the isle of Man - that is indeed impressive!

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sorry not so - I commute on a regular basis between IoM and the home counties

[Hitch]

Re. the BBC's promotion (or suppression) of classical music: the iPlayer's "Music" category contains plenty of music but almost none that could be described as classical.

To find such, select the Arts category, then scroll to the very bottom of the page, and eventually you will find a total of 31 videos, some of which have a tenuous link to the - and I will use that apparently dread word - genre. The Beeb is hardly shouting the glad news from the rooftops, is it?

[french frank]

Re. the BBC's promotion (or suppression) of classical music: the iPlayer's "Music" category contains plenty of music but almost none that could be described as classical.

To find such, select the Arts category, then scroll to the very bottom of the page, and eventually you will find a total of 31 videos, some of which have a tenuous link to the - and I will use that apparently dread word - genre. The Beeb is hardly shouting the glad news from the rooftops, is it?

I did find quite a lot by going to Sounds > Music > Classical. Some of the episodes are to programmes (Breakfast, Essential Classics, In Tune, Night Tracks, but also CotW). But it's being marketed, and marketed as restful, 'Let it wash over you', Chill (yes, it comes under that), 'Light and ethereal classical music to help you focus' (focus on what?), Mindful Mix? The Sleeping Forecast?

There are loads of episodes but very little that provokes interest in classical music or intellectual stimulus. It might train new listeners for Classic FM. But I'm not very sure what kind of listener would be attracted by this. I'm certainly not.

[Hitch]

When it is marketed, publicised, listed, what-have-you, the BBC's classical output is almost apologetic. Too often, the BBC Sounds website offers classical music as a soporific or as an alternative to ambient music. The current list of podcasts is a pile of information without as much as a schemata to guide the newly curious or the devotee. The same can be said for the iPlayer.

As I've written before, if R3 could remind the BBC management that the station curates a millennium of music then it might get the attention it deserves.

[teamsaint]

When it is marketed, publicised, listed, what-have-you, the BBC's classical output is almost apologetic. Too often, the BBC Sounds website offers classical music as a soporific or as an alternative to ambient music. The current list of podcasts is a pile of information without as much as a schemata to guide the newly curious or the devotee. The same can be said for the iPlayer.

As I've written before, if R3 could remind the BBC management that the station curates a millennium of music then it might get the attention it deserves.

I don’t tend to cut the BBC much slack, in the main. But I almost don’t blame them for the apathetic approach you describe.
The world is absurdly media rich now. For free, or advert free for the price of a pint and a picked egg you can pretty much access unlimited music of a variety that is almost incomprehensible. Other than veering away slightly from my our normal listening, or putting in a big effort to engage well outside our usual zones, I’m not sure how we , any of us, properly deal with this abundance.
What chance does the BBC have , even with its immense reach, against the all powerful spotify algorithm ? Why bother really trying to fight generations of indifference ? And the signs of permanent damage ,sadly are there. I work with people who are interested in the arts, liberal, Guardian reading folk, who , in the main, are startlingly ignorant of anything around classical. People who don’t know how to pronounce, or perhaps have never heard the name Rachmaninov, for example. And these are people who like( as mentioned in a post above) modern art galleries etc, perhaps not afraid of a challenge.
I do really wonder if the current leaders and middle managers at the BBC are from the same generations, in terms of their attitude to the music that R3 tends to broadcast ? Not just hostility, possibly born of some half digested political philosophy, but just sheer ignorance , and a belief, perhaps, that the music is irredeemably of the past , and that a patronising tokenism will do until the thing fades away naturally.
A battle, in fact, not worth fighting. Who knows ?