Axing of BBC Singers and related cuts

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  • french frank
    Administrator/Moderator
    • Feb 2007
    • 30612

    Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
    Thanks FF . So a total spend on classical music including orchs is about £60 mill a year.
    Not quite that amount since neither R3's music spend nor the Orchs &PFs is devoted to 'classical music'; merely to R3 and the Orchs and Performing Groups.

    Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
    In the 2022 - 3 strategic plan £27 million was set aside for Orchestras and Proms. £60 million is a tiny fraction of the BBC One budget but still a large sum of money.
    And Proms??? The deficit used to be in the region of £6m, as I recall.

    Thanks for mentioning the Annual Plan which is here (pdf), searchable on orchestras and Radio 3 for all references.

    Most of the comments about Radio 3 seem like the usual window dressing with a few novelties for the year. Ominously, I note (p29):

    "The review of the BBC’s role within the classical music sector will also conclude during this period. We will reflect on its recommendations, particularly its implications for the BBC’s orchestras and choirs, the Proms and our broadcast content."

    I assume the review has been completed and the recent announcements are the consequence?
    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

    Comment

    • ahinton
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 16123

      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
      "Ax", being the American English version, would translate into "axing", I would think. It wouldn't surprise me to be seeing it more frequently with American "culture" increasingly taking over in this country.
      Harrison Birtwistle would have known...

      Comment

      • vinteuil
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 13035

        Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
        "Ax", being the American English version...
        ... hold your horses - not as simple as that. The 1933 OED has : "Ax, axe / ... / The spelling ax is better on every ground, of etymology, phonology, and analogy, than axe, which of late has become prevalent."
        .

        Comment

        • Pulcinella
          Host
          • Feb 2014
          • 11191

          Extract from a Press Release received today by our Choir Secretary

          More than 80 choirs from around the country have raised their voices together to tell the BBC, “Don’t scrap the BBC Singers!”. In a video put together by choirmaster Sam Evans, they have been joined by choirs from Canada, the USA, Malaysia, France and Italy, showing the international reach of the BBC Signers, and the how the impact of this decision has been felt around the world. The announcement to close the choir, and to reduce the workforce of its orchestras by 20%, was made by the BBC on Tuesday 7th March. Since then more than 130,000 people have signed a petition on change.org calling for the BBC to reverse its decision.
          Where to view the video (from 2pm on Monday 20th March):
          Twitter: @SamEvansLondon
          Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@savethebbcsingers

          Comment

          • ahinton
            Full Member
            • Nov 2010
            • 16123

            The only good things to have come out of this act of cultural vandalism (as it has been widely and correctly described) are the myriad of letters, petitions, published articles and other forms of support for the ensemble from composers, conductors, musicologists, academics, conservatoires, string players, pianists et al as well as from those who are not professional musicians which ought alone to be more than sufficient to convince BBC of its utter folly in proceeding with it.

            Comment

            • french frank
              Administrator/Moderator
              • Feb 2007
              • 30612

              Originally posted by ahinton View Post
              The only good things to have come out of this act of cultural vandalism (as it has been widely and correctly described) are the myriad of letters, petitions, published articles and other forms of support for the ensemble from composers, conductors, musicologists, academics, conservatoires, string players, pianists et al as well as from those who are not professional musicians which ought alone to be more than sufficient to convince BBC of its utter folly in proceeding with it.
              "But Bertie, we've only just carried out an exhaustive and very thoughtful review of the BBC's role within the classical music sector. Regretfully, we've come to the decision that maintaining that role as we have done heretofore does not score highly enough on our PVT (Public Value Test) to warrant continuation."

              Radio 3's wishy-washy tearjerking mindfulness and happy harmonising merely demonstrates that there's been no one in the BBC bolshie enough to make a stand. Not even anyone with the status of RW.
              It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

              Comment

              • Padraig
                Full Member
                • Feb 2013
                • 4257

                Originally posted by Pulcinella View Post
                Extract from a Press Release received today by our Choir Secretary
                Viewed the video, Pulcinella. Impressive! Mainly England on the warpath, but the EU not absent. The Valley High School Choir, Des Moines, Iowa, USA, and The Finchley Childrens Music Group and Chamber Choir standing up with their I AM SPARTACUS pledge. Brilliant. I looked in vain for an Irish accent, but we can't have everything.
                Last edited by Padraig; 21-03-23, 11:27.

                Comment

                • ahinton
                  Full Member
                  • Nov 2010
                  • 16123

                  Originally posted by french frank View Post
                  "But Bertie, we've only just carried out an exhaustive and very thoughtful review of the BBC's role within the classical music sector. Regretfully, we've come to the decision that maintaining that role as we have done heretofore does not score highly enough on our PVT (Public Value Test) to warrant continuation."

                  Radio 3's wishy-washy tearjerking mindfulness and happy harmonising merely demonstrates that there's been no one in the BBC bolshie enough to make a stand. Not even anyone with the status of RW.
                  Indeed. I continue to despair and will let up on that only when (and I do say when) BBC comes to its corporate senses...

                  Comment

                  • french frank
                    Administrator/Moderator
                    • Feb 2007
                    • 30612

                    Originally posted by french frank View Post
                    Radio 3's wishy-washy tearjerking mindfulness and happy harmonising merely demonstrates that there's been no one in the BBC bolshie enough to make a stand. Not even anyone with the status of RW.
                    And following on from this, I read on p 62 of the Annual Plan:

                    "BBC Sounds and Radio 3 will continue to commission and broadcast distinctive mood and talent-led music shows building on the success of shows like Tearjerker, Piano Flow and Gameplay, to drive discovery and bring classical music to new and young genre-fluid audiences who otherwise might never engage with it."

                    Pretty much garbage. Piano Flow last week contained one "core" classical work out of 16 - Shostakovich - with perhaps Arvo Pärt and Jocelyn Pook creeping in as "classical". I looked through six episodes of Gameplay and found one classical piece (Tchaikovsky's Waltz of the Flowers in the Christmas edtion. Tearjerker seemed averagely to pop in two or three pieces at most, not all "core". I can't see that it allows "young genre-fluid audiences" to engage with classical music. Very, very timidly with a minority of them possibly, I'd say.

                    The return of Tearjerker and Gameplay promised for the future and Piano Flow to run on and on?

                    On p 33:

                    "BBC Radio 3 will continue its work on rediscovering neglected and forgotten composers and
                    recording their work as part of its commitment to diversity and evolving the canon of great
                    classical music."

                    An admirable general aim but "evolving the canon of great classical music"? Fine words which fool the BBC brass which has to be satisfied - and is easily fooled.
                    It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                    Comment

                    • Ein Heldenleben
                      Full Member
                      • Apr 2014
                      • 7077

                      Originally posted by french frank View Post
                      And following on from this, I read on p 62 of the Annual Plan:

                      "BBC Sounds and Radio 3 will continue to commission and broadcast distinctive mood and talent-led music shows building on the success of shows like Tearjerker, Piano Flow and Gameplay, to drive discovery and bring classical music to new and young genre-fluid audiences who otherwise might never engage with it."

                      Pretty much garbage. Piano Flow last week contained one "core" classical work out of 16 - Shostakovich - with perhaps Arvo Pärt and Jocelyn Pook creeping in as "classical". I looked through six episodes of Gameplay and found one classical piece (Tchaikovsky's Waltz of the Flowers in the Christmas edtion. Tearjerker seemed averagely to pop in two or three pieces at most, not all "core". I can't see that it allows "young genre-fluid audiences" to engage with classical music. Very, very timidly with a minority of them possibly, I'd say.

                      The return of Tearjerker and Gameplay promised for the future and Piano Flow to run on and on?

                      On p 33:

                      "BBC Radio 3 will continue its work on rediscovering neglected and forgotten composers and
                      recording their work as part of its commitment to diversity and evolving the canon of great
                      classical music."

                      An admirable general aim but "evolving the canon of great classical music"? Fine words which fool the BBC brass which has to be satisfied - and is easily fooled.
                      “Genre-fluid” - who writes this cobblers?
                      I don’t think I know one classical music buff who isn’t interested in jazz , rock and any of a dozen other “genres” .
                      ‘Genre’ - a hideous word only used by media luvvies . I’m almost ashamed to be one.
                      And as for “ evolving the canon” oh puhlease…

                      Comment

                      • french frank
                        Administrator/Moderator
                        • Feb 2007
                        • 30612

                        Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                        “Genre-fluid” - who writes this cobblers?
                        At a guess, I'd say in this case the outgoing CR3 himself.
                        It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                        Comment

                        • ahinton
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 16123

                          The excellent fellow who runs the pulisher Toccata Press and the record label Toccata Classics amusingly suggested, in the aftermath of the recent Lineker débâcle, that BBC Singers present "Match of the Day"; BBC Singers' Jonathan Manners then put up them singing that very programme's theme tune. BBC's absurdly transparent corporate management speak references to "agility", "flexibility" and the rest prompted me to wonder if it mightn't seem all the more pertinent were it to be sung instead to

                          We are the BBC's fine Singers
                          As "agile" as can be
                          Although we might not play great soccer,
                          We’re "Match"less as you’ll see
                          Our Ferneyhough and Bach and Weir shows
                          Our "flexibility",
                          So our reinstatement is vital,
                          For the life of BBC!

                          As you were(n't?)...

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37933

                            Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                            “Genre-fluid” - who writes this cobblers?
                            It would be intriguing to find out what criteria are to be used in determining what classical music fare is to be specifically taylored to that, er, demographic.

                            Comment

                            • jayne lee wilson
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2011
                              • 10711

                              Originally posted by Ein Heldenleben View Post
                              “Genre-fluid” - who writes this cobblers?
                              I don’t think I know one classical music buff who isn’t interested in jazz , rock and any of a dozen other “genres” .
                              ‘Genre’ - a hideous word only used by media luvvies . I’m almost ashamed to be one.
                              And as for “ evolving the canon” oh puhlease…
                              "Genre" itself is a useful term for style and category, surely, in film (noir, comedy, scifi, horror etc), art, literature? And music.

                              Genre-fluid isn't all that shocking is it, really? Just an openness to trying or enjoying those very categories, without necessarily identifying with any restriction on those choices....similar to eclectic.
                              It may have derived from "gender-fluid" i.e non-binary: freeing oneself from stereotyping labels; refusing such restricted identities.

                              Also used of works and artists themselves which combine different genres in the one creation.... quite useful really.
                              Last edited by jayne lee wilson; 21-03-23, 02:20.

                              Comment

                              • french frank
                                Administrator/Moderator
                                • Feb 2007
                                • 30612

                                Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                                "Genre" itself is a useful term for style and category, surely, in film (noir, comedy, scifi, horror etc), art, literature? And music.
                                Yes, I find the concept of genres (categories/classes NOT pigeonholes i.e. they can overlap and fuse) very useful.

                                Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                                Genre-fluid isn't all that shocking is it, really? Just an openness to trying or enjoying those very categories, without necessarily identifying with any restriction on those choices....similar to eclectic.
                                It may have derived from "gender-fluid" i.e non-binary: freeing oneself from stereotyping labels; refusing such restricted identities.

                                Also used of works and artists themselves which combine different genres in the one creation.... quite useful really.
                                Quite useful in this case in provoking the question as to why a classical music/jazz/world music station should offer any of its airtime to various other genres, when the genre-fluid youth of today isn't given a chance to test its fluidity on all the BBC 'youth' stations because classical music is excluded from them - almost 100%? If the BBC is being genuine (though I don't think it is) in its well-meaning aim to introduce receptive young minds to classical music, why aren't these very programmes on the stations which these young minds are listening to? Why put them on a station which most of these open young minds wouldn't touch with the proverbial bargepole?

                                Which brings us back to the apparent difficulty the BBC executive has with classical music - just not sufficiently genre-fluid, I suppose.
                                It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                                Comment

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