Economics ....

[Dave2002]

See https://www.wired.com/story/happiness-measurement/

[JasonPalmer]

Good article, I have recently been reading about degrowth as an alternate economic paradigm, a focus on quality and sustainability over simple growth.

[Serial_Apologist]

That's fine for tiny self-defining communes - though even they have come up against planning laws and whatnot. You would need first to dismantle capitalism to make it a practicable reality for all society. If everyone downgraded their lifestyle capitalism would just collapse and take everything with it in a massive existential tidal wave of destruction. "Dropping out" was one among other reasons hippies were so hated by the ruling orders in the 1960s and 70s. One of the negative consequences of "hippy culture" was to be the American "survivalists", armed and bunkered up against intruders, living on self-sufficiency in far-out wilderness areas.

[JasonPalmer]

Well capitalism does not put down a cost for environmental damage into accounts so we need some kind of change, degrowth may not fully catch on but hopefully influence politicians and manifestos.

Of course if we can mine asteroids,mars...and even terraform mars then all will be well.

[Serial_Apologist]

Well capitalism does not put down a cost for environmental damage into accounts so we need some kind of change, degrowth may not fully catch on but hopefully influence politicians and manifestos.

Capitalism's not "supposed" to; its economists' jobs are to measure the amount of added value on products made by workers by increased productivity to keep their companies profitably competitive and return a portion of the surplus value to shareholders... all in accordance with how much people can or are prepared to pay. I've never understood this Green call for a price to be attached for environmental value or degradation. Sustainable product is neither accordant with the cut-throat world that business has to operate in and its values, or go under, nor with sustainability. Sustainability is synonymous with out of fashion - fashion in line with creating needs people didn't know they had in the first place, and had to be artificially created, regardless of the cost to the environment. The only value the system allows is market value; the only market value in "the environment" under capitalism is the marketable value of land.

Of course if we can mine asteroids,mars...and even terraform mars then all will be well.

[JasonPalmer]

I kind of mean accounting is an abstract way of measuring activity that does not include environmental costs, we have to live in the real world and that means accepting limits of the environment. Not that it matters much now, we have probably passed the point of no return and all dooomed. Still, the IPCC may help fund a way to capture and draw down the problem gases. Who knows.