Ukraine

[richardfinegold]

I'm interested in the report that Putin refused his commanders' requests to withdraw from Kherson back beyond the Dnieper, which would preserve lives and equipment. What kind of mind refuses such a request by military professionals? Still, I suppose Hitler wasn't a high-ranking military man either.

Hitler refused all requests for tactical retreats, particularly in Russia, with disastrous results. Stalin frequently did the same. In Vietnam
Many Military Figures counseled withdrawal, only to be over ruled by Politicians. There is nothing new under the sun

Putin also comes from the KGB, which regularly held the Military in contempt

[Frances_iom]

...
Putin also comes from the KGB, which regularly held the Military in contempt

if you intend to use them as cannon fodder then treating them as not worthy of consideration no doubt helps.

[french frank]

if you intend to use them as cannon fodder then treating them as not worthy of consideration no doubt helps.

I regarded the report as interesting in what it implied. Historian's:"Hence the political imperative supersedes military reality" will be very bad news indeed for some people, but in terms of the way the war might develop it's quite hopeful news for the Ukrainians. Like the sacking yesterday of another top general. It all looks like the shoring up of a crumbling position.

[french frank]

It looks as if the protests are spreading, and the protesters who don't want to be called up are the very generation most likely to have already been against the war and who don't buy the Kremlin propaganda. They have a good idea of what's been going on. Added to which, the women who don't want to lose sons and husbands are joining them.

According to the BBC story, many more soldiers from Dagestan (pop 3 million) have died than from the Moscow (pop. 12 million). The word gets round.

[oddoneout]

It looks as if the protests are spreading, and the protesters who don't want to be called up are the very generation most likely to have already been against the war and who don't buy the Kremlin propaganda. They have a good idea of what's been going on. Added to which, the women who don't want to lose sons and husbands are joining them.

According to the BBC story, many more soldiers from Dagestan (pop 3 million) have died than from the Moscow (pop. 12 million). The word gets round.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/picture/2022/sep/25/nicola-jennings-putin-russia-conscription-ukraine-cartoon

[Serial_Apologist]

It looks as if the protests are spreading, and the protesters who don't want to be called up are the very generation most likely to have already been against the war and who don't buy the Kremlin propaganda. They have a good idea of what's been going on. Added to which, the women who don't want to lose sons and husbands are joining them.

According to the BBC story, many more soldiers from Dagestan (pop 3 million) have died than from the Moscow (pop. 12 million). The word gets round.

It would seem those protesting or leaving the country don't recognise fellow country persons in the Ukraine as in need of rescuing from their hosts, then.

[french frank]

It would seem those protesting or leaving the country don't recognise fellow country persons in the Ukraine as in need of rescuing from their hosts, then.

I think in such matters any sort of organised action is impossible - other than be in Such-and-such a place at X time with your banners. Ideally they would all sign up, be sent to Ukraine and either refuse to fight or desert en masse. But that can't be organised by individuals, though the strength of feeling that exists may mean the Kremlin will find it even harder than it already is to find enough suitable recruits; and the situation will go from bad to worse for those already there. There will no doubt be an element of vindictiveness in those in charge facing imminent defeat.

[Bryn]

I think in such matters any sort of organised action is impossible - other than be in Such-and-such a place at X time with your banners. Ideally they would all sign up, be sent to Ukraine and either refuse to fight or desert en masse. But that can't be organised by individuals, though the strength of feeling that exists may mean the Kremlin will find it even harder than it already is to find enough suitable recruits; and the situation will go from bad to worse for those already there. There will no doubt be an element of vindictiveness in those in charge facing imminent defeat.

In Vietnam, some draftees resorted to fragging . . .

[french frank]

In Vietnam, some draftees resorted to fragging . . .

Thanks for that, Bryn. I really can't see that the draft is going to reverse the Russian losses in the immediate future, hence if at all.

[Historian]

In Vietnam, some draftees resorted to fragging . . .

Even earlier in the process than Bryn's relevant example, one man attending a drafting meeting today announced "No-one is going anywhere" then shot the local military commissar. This according to the Guardian.

[french frank]

Even earlier in the process than Bryn's relevant example, one man attending a drafting meeting today announced "No-one is going anywhere" then shot the local military commissar. This according to the Guardian.

Had just returned to post that! Yes, all very interesting.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Even earlier in the process than Bryn's relevant example, one man attending a drafting meeting today announced "No-one is going anywhere" then shot the local military commissar. This according to the Guardian.

They didn't actually call him the commissar, but it looks like pretty much the same thing as back then.

[Bryn]

Evgeny Kissin on Ukraine.

[Frances_iom]

has any source come to any decision re the damage (supposedly deliberate) to both Nord Stream 1 & 2 - is it Russia demonstrating that no gas will be supplied to Northern Europe for a long time as I guess the repairs will be both costly and awkward - but who else benefits?

[richardfinegold]

has any source come to any decision re the damage (supposedly deliberate) to both Nord Stream 1 & 2 - is it Russia demonstrating that no gas will be supplied to Northern Europe for a long time as I guess the repairs will be both costly and awkward - but who else benefits?

If Russia wanted to turn off the gas, what an odd way to do it