Ukraine

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Who is the conscience of Russia these days? Where are the Solzhenitsyns, the Sakharovs, the Rostropovichs of today?

Who indeed? The mention of Sakharov prompted memories of 1981-ish, when Soviet orchestras in the UK were heckled for his release. Maybe we could have been a bit more savvy this time round than an outright ban on Putin's buddies here - but then I remember a Gergiev Prom when a couple of his minders in Thug-at-C&A stood at stage front to dissuade protest.

[Serial_Apologist]

in Thug-at-C&A.

[Frances_iom]

dave2002
you really need to look at the data mining being done by your refs to Time

[oddoneout]

There must still be many thousands of Russians who lived in Soviet times. Watching some of those elderly Muscovites being interviewed in the early says of the war claiming to support the war and Putin, I had the feeling that they remembered the old times and were saying the 'right' thing to get rid of the stupid Western journalists with their thoughtless and dangerous questions. The older people would have known that coming out with their real feelings could have dangerous consequences for them and their families.

We in the West have trouble understanding the self preservation mentality that older Russians must still have, so I don't give much credence to polls that allegedly say that most older Russians support Putin. I think that Russians will be better informed than we imagine.

Who is the conscience of Russia these days? Where are the Solzhenitsyns, the Sakharovs, the Rostropovichs of today?

This is of some relevance? https://www.theguardian.com/stage/20...fleeing-russia
I would be reluctant to criticise the Russian people for not speaking out. The older generation have reason to keep their opinions to themselves through experience of earlier times, and even the younger generation are fearful in the current situation - if not for themselves then for their family - of consequences of action and/or speaking out.
People in this country are afraid in some circumstances to speak out about wrongdoing (business malpractice, physical abuse etc) although the chances of being killed for it are minimal, so how much more difficult for those who face a real risk of physical harm. Likewise, criticising Russians' belief in and support for Putin et al isn't very helpful IMO when one considers how many in this country think that the PM and the government are the best thing for the country and are doing a grand job all round, views reinforced by so much media output.
Incidentally on the subject of communications, back in the day wasn't steam radio the means by which news/information from "outside" got through to beleaguered places? Has technology moved on so far that it no longer exists as an alternative (perhaps through lack of kit and expertise - although I would have thought the armed forces still use it or have it as back-up in some form) except as internet provision which, it seems to me, can be and is blocked more easily by the state? Happy to be put right by someone who knows.

[Dave2002]

dave2002
you really need to look at the data mining being done by your refs to Time

Could you elaborate please?

Probably too late to do much about it now anyway.

In the meantime I didn't realise that Europe had deliveries by rail from China.

https://www.wired.com/story/supply-chain-crisis-data/

[oddoneout]

Could you elaborate please?

Probably too late to do much about it now anyway.

In the meantime I didn't realise that Europe had deliveries by rail from China.

https://www.wired.com/story/supply-chain-crisis-data/

Perhaps because we only hear/see references to container ships?

[french frank]

Incidentally on the subject of communications, back in the day wasn't steam radio the means by which news/information from "outside" got through to beleaguered places? Has technology moved on so far that it no longer exists as an alternative (perhaps through lack of kit and expertise - although I would have thought the armed forces still use it or have it as back-up in some form) except as internet provision which, it seems to me, can be and is blocked more easily by the state?

BBC News Russian (the old BBC Russian Service) was blocked but has apparently restarted broadcasts - but to whom? The website is blocked - a pity since it's obviously giving pretty full coverage of the war. It comes back to who wants to know the news and how can those people access it.

The catch is that those who do want to know what's going on are precisely the people most likely to reject the state propaganda in the first place.

[Frances_iom]

In the meantime I didn't realise that Europe had deliveries by rail from China.

only I think one train a week into Germany though it might has increased since the article in Rail - a major catch was the lack of return traffic and though faster than the sea route it was considerably more expensive - there was a bit of a write up in "Rail" Magazine some months ago - there was a shortlived section of the train that came to UK but the UK loading gauge is too restictive to handle the full size containers and as for anything to do with railways other than HS2 the treasury always says no to improvements.

[eighthobstruction]

....measured words this week for The Atlantic by Obama....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4bDuFJuriw

[french frank]

A fascinating article by Greg Yudin, 'sociologist, philosopher and professor at the Moscow School of Social and Economic Sciences' published just before the invasion started:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/russia-ukraine-most-senseless-war-nato-history/

'The only thing that can stop this war is if the West hands Ukraine over to Putin.'

'Russia is a depoliticised country, where people have very little interest in politics, especially foreign policy. They do not want to believe in the coming war, and its start will be a complete surprise.

Then, the Russian government’s official interpretation will be accepted almost without a doubt. First, because war is a time of unity in any country, and people instinctively try to unite. Second, because alternative interpretations will not be available and will be too contrary to what people are used to believing. Third, to doubt the justification of the war waged by your country is always very difficult. Fourth, it is simply dangerous. In wartime, the line between critics and traitors disappears, and there is little time for due process for the latter. Fifth, even if you do doubt something, it is not very clear what can be done – therefore it is easier not to doubt. Finally, although there are not so many supporters of Putin’s ‘there is no such thing as Ukraine’ theory in Russia, they will become very loud in the near future, and the spiral of silence will work in their favour.'

And one of the most sobering articles I've read so far, at least about the situation within Russia and the propaganda which has reached the mainstream media, confirming Yudin's fears:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/07/russian-media-coverage-ukraine-genocidal-streak

'Increasingly, Russia’s pundit class has pushed claims that a significant swath of Ukrainian society is under the sway of far-right ideologies, blaming Ukraine’s staunch resistance to the attack on mass psychosis rather than on legitimate anger at the Russian invasion.'

As for Yudin himself who participated in an anti-war protest on the first day:

'The police severely beat the well-known Russian political scientist and sociologist Grigory Yudin. Yudin was taken unconscious to central Moscow’s Sklifosovsky Institute hospital where he needed treatment.'

https://socialistworker.co.uk/international/russian-socialists-on-ukraine-anti-war-protests-and-turning-resistance-into-class-war/

Can one really believe that winning Russian hearts and minds by peaceful means is a possibility?

[oddoneout]

I doubted this headline when I saw it and further reading hasn't changed my view

Priti Patel apologises for low number of Ukraine refugees arriving in UK

, unless the rest of the recording went on to say something significantly different from this

“I apologise with frustration myself … .”

which sounds much like the "I'm sorry you feel that..." school of apology previously employed by her, and suggests to me that she is frustrated with the (justified except in her view) criticism coming from all sides, not with the effects it's having on those at the receiving end.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/08/ukraine-refugees-uk-12000-arrived-visa-schemes

Other gems

security checks were “not the problem”

and

“They’re not seeing delays.

[johncorrigan]

I doubted this headline when I saw it and further reading hasn't changed my view , unless the rest of the recording went on to say something significantly different from this which sounds much like the "I'm sorry you feel that..." school of apology previously employed by her, and suggests to me that she is frustrated with the (justified except in her view) criticism coming from all sides, not with the effects it's having on those at the receiving end.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/apr/08/ukraine-refugees-uk-12000-arrived-visa-schemes

Other gems and

She's doing far too much surging.

[Dave2002]

I don't know if this is a reasonably reliable source. Probably reasonably so.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/04/07/russians-putin-fleeing-00023482

Some Russians are moving to Turkey, but they might not be able to stay there for long.

[RichardB]

I don't know if this is a reasonably reliable source. Probably reasonably so.

Reasonably reasonably reliable, you mean?

This is the kind of thing that feeds into the increasing hold authoritarian regimes have in eastern Europe generally. Young liberal-minded people leave as soon as they can (and who can blame them? I left the UK for comparable reasons in 1993), leaving the narrow-minded old nationalists behind to continue voting the strongmen in.

[Dave2002]

Reasonably reasonably reliable, you mean?

This is the kind of thing that feeds into the increasing hold authoritarian regimes have in eastern Europe generally. Young liberal-minded people leave as soon as they can (and who can blame them? I left the UK for comparable reasons in 1993), leaving the narrow-minded old nationalists behind to continue voting the strongmen in.

Until very recently I was hoping that many of the countries to the east would be heading for better times, and that we could all cooperate. I have visited many of the former eastern bloc countries since things opened up, but the latest actions seem to be putting civilisation back at least 50 years - all in the space of a few weeks.