Ukraine

[Serial_Apologist]

Where is the Orthodox Church, or rather the Orthodox Churches, on Putin and all this? And going further, what are the nominally "western" churches saying to/ advising to them? We seem to hear nothing beyond the usual "human suffering" etc.

[Serial_Apologist]

Thanks Bryn for finding and posting - it hadn't occurred to me that somebody would have youtubed this excellent series of programmes, which I recommend re-viewing, and whose lessons were all to clearly illustrated in the two parter on Channel 4 tonight and last night indicting the Jeremy Kyle Show - clearly an example of what happens when people fall in line unquestioningly behind the power structures, surrounding which are the bigger entrenched structures generating compliance and consent that go by the name of entertainment.

[oddoneout]

Where is the Orthodox Church, or rather the Orthodox Churches, on Putin and all this? And going further, what are the nominally "western" churches saying to/ advising to them? We seem to hear nothing beyond the usual "human suffering" etc.

Recent and older news

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/13/russian-orthodox-church-in-amsterdam-announces-split-with-moscow

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/10/15/russian-orthodox-church-splits-from-constantinople-over-ukraine

[Frances_iom]

Where is the Orthodox Church, or rather the Orthodox Churches, on Putin and all this? ....

The Orthodox Church has been an arm of Government certainly since the days of Peter the Great which lasted until Stalinist days.
As for Putin there was the 1st part of what should be an excellent series at 11am today on R4 on his background and rise to power - like Brighton rock he is stamped with KGB through & through - possibly joining it "as the biggest gang in town".

[eighthobstruction]

....very funny anecdote coming out of Ukr....Many pets have just been let loose and are strays....a Ukr woman noticing a large Husky dog running around fields near her, decided to catch it and get it to a vet/shelter....she spent a couple of hours trying to catch it and in the end was successful....on getting it to the vets - it was verified to be a Wolf....

[Serial_Apologist]

....very funny anecdote coming out of Ukr....Many pets have just been let loose and are strays....a Ukr woman noticing a large Husky dog running around fields near her, decided to catch it and get it to a vet/shelter....she spent a couple of hours trying to catch it and in the end was successful....on getting it to the vets - it was verified to be a Wolf....

Good to see the 7-year old who entertained a cellarful of people with a Disney film song now with her nan in Poland, and still singing. Her parents are still back there however. And what of the astonishingly brave young employee who demonstrated in front of the Russian state TV news! From what little footage we get it would appear that women there seem to be at the forefront of much of this opposition.

[subcontrabass]

Where is the Orthodox Church, or rather the Orthodox Churches, on Putin and all this?

Initial (bland) statement from the Patriarch of Moscow: http://www.sourozh.org/maineng/2022/...monastics.html
Later rant: https://archbishopcranmer.com/patria...its-gay-pride/
Initial statement by the head of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church (Moscow Patriarchate): https://orthochristian.com/144642.html (defending the "integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine")
Recent statement from the Patriarch of Constantinople: https://orthodoxtimes.com/ecumenical...ar-in-ukraine/
Interview with the number two bishop in the Patriarchate of Constantinople: https://orthodoxtimes.com/elder-metr...more-stifling/
Letter to Moscow by the Primate of the Orthodox Church of Greece: https://orthodoxtimes.com/archbishop...cular-leaders/
Letter from one of the Moscow Patriarchate Bishops in Paris: https://archeveche.eu/en/open-letter...rch-of-moscow/
Response of the Patriarch of Moscow to a letter from the Acting General Secretary of the World Council of Churches: https://www.oikoumene.org/resources/...sh-translation

[ardcarp]

I don't know if anyone is clever enough to play this clip (I don't understand/belong to Facebook) but when Mrs A played it to me it made me weep. It's a Ukrainian home that has been bombed, and the final act of the wife (?) is to play her grand piano...not a bad amateur player...before fleeing.

https://www.facebook.com/100000748192668/posts/5490109441023941/?d=n

[Joseph K]

I don't know if anyone is clever enough to play this clip (I don't understand/belong to Facebook) but when Mrs A played it to me it made me weep. It's a Ukrainian home that has been bombed, and the final act of the wife (?) is to play her grand piano...not a bad amateur player...before fleeing.

https://www.facebook.com/10000074819...441023941/?d=n

My mum sent me this video. (her reaction was similar to yours.)

[teamsaint]

Zelensky admitting that Ukraine can’t be part of Nato is surely a pivotal moment, and one that hopefully helps bring about a quick end to the fighting.

[Nick Armstrong]

....very funny anecdote coming out of Ukr....Many pets have just been let loose and are strays....a Ukr woman noticing a large Husky dog running around fields near her, decided to catch it and get it to a vet/shelter....she spent a couple of hours trying to catch it and in the end was successful....on getting it to the vets - it was verified to be a Wolf....

Love it

[Dave2002]

Zelensky admitting that Ukraine can’t be part of Nato is surely a pivotal moment, and one that hopefully helps bring about a quick end to the fighting.

I doubt that it'll make a shred of difference.

[french frank]

I doubt that it'll make a shred of difference.

You may be right. The danger sign is that Putin has too many "reasons" for invading: Ukraine wants to join Nato which threatens Russia's security. Ukrainians are committing genocide in Donbas. Ukraine is governed by neo-Nazis and Russia is liberating the people. The legitimate president was overthrown in a coup. And so on.

None of these explain Chechnya, Georgia or Crimea. One explanation covers all three - plus Ukraine: Putin wanting to get/keep control and is willing to use military force to do so. Ockham's razor.

[subcontrabass]

I don't know if anyone is clever enough to play this clip (I don't understand/belong to Facebook) but when Mrs A played it to me it made me weep. It's a Ukrainian home that has been bombed, and the final act of the wife (?) is to play her grand piano...not a bad amateur player...before fleeing.

https://www.facebook.com/10000074819...441023941/?d=n

Reminds me of an old Russian lady I knew, who came from Tartu in Estonia. When the Soviet Army invaded for the second time during World War 2 her husband told her to go as far west as possible, ahead of the retreating Germans. Her last action before leaving was to play her piano, close the lid, and then leave.

[Serial_Apologist]

You may be right. The danger sign is that Putin has too many "reasons" for invading: Ukraine wants to join Nato which threatens Russia's security. Ukrainians are committing genocide in Donbas. Ukraine is governed by neo-Nazis and Russia is liberating the people. The legitimate president was overthrown in a coup. And so on.

None of these explain Chechnya, Georgia or Crimea. One explanation covers all three - plus Ukraine: Putin wanting to get/keep control and is willing to use military force to do so. Ockham's razor.

In Chechnya he claimed to be doing the west a favour, helping do away with "Islamic terrorism". Probably the reason that "the west" said nothing.