Ukraine

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  • Bryn
    Banned
    • Mar 2007
    • 24688

    Originally posted by Boilk View Post
    I'm cynical about any appendage of the US government being non-partisan and 100% factual. In fact during the Trump administration VoA became perhaps more politicised than ever, as this Seattle Times editorial alludes to. I've no reason to believe it has suddenly become whiter-than-white since the Biden administration ousted former Trump loyalists.
    I share your mistrust of VoA. Its history is pretty dire.

    Comment

    • oddoneout
      Full Member
      • Nov 2015
      • 9218

      Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post


      I was thinking more of re-population!
      One man can serve many mistresses... or wives if polygamy seems more acceptable.
      Apart from that I'm sure the womenfolk can probably manage pretty well.

      Comment

      • eighthobstruction
        Full Member
        • Nov 2010
        • 6444

        Originally posted by Boilk View Post
        I'm cynical about any appendage of the US government being non-partisan and 100% factual. In fact during the Trump administration VoA became perhaps more politicised than ever, as this Seattle Times editorial alludes to. I've no reason to believe it has suddenly become whiter-than-white since the Biden administration ousted former Trump loyalists.
        yes...#483 was a 'cut and paste' just intended to highlight it was VOA....glad to hear the Trump loyalists have been ousted....
        bong ching

        Comment

        • french frank
          Administrator/Moderator
          • Feb 2007
          • 30323

          Originally posted by Bryn View Post
          I share your mistrust of VoA. Its history is pretty dire.
          The link was not actually to VoA itself but to Polygraph.info which is a referenced fact-checking site owned by VoA. The article links to a variety of different sources such as Associated Press, Inform Napalm, Meduza, Vox, Takie Dela (in Russian), Daily Beast. It took a statement made by the Russian Ministry of Defence "The Russian Defense Ministry stated that only officers and contractors are participating in the military operation in Ukraine" [i.e. no conscripts] and referenced sources suggesting this was untrue. Alternatively you can believe the Russian Ministry of Defence or disbelieve both (if you think it's possible for both to be wrong at the same time).
          It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

          Comment

          • Jazzrook
            Full Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 3088

            Chris Morris ~ 'War':



            JR

            Comment

            • RichardB
              Banned
              • Nov 2021
              • 2170

              Originally posted by Jazzrook View Post
              Chris Morris ~ 'War'
              That was one of the first things that came to my mind two weeks ago.

              Comment

              • Historian
                Full Member
                • Aug 2012
                • 646

                Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                Why have the 'friends' of Ukraine apparently failed to provide its forces with the means to sink Russian war vessels off the coast of their country?
                Effective anti-shipping missiles are rather more difficult to transfer than the more portable anti-tank and anti-aircraft weapons which have been sent to the Ukraine. The Ukrainians would also have to have a secure place to set up such missiles without being detected by Russian countermeasures and destroyed before they could be used.

                Comment

                • Bella Kemp
                  Full Member
                  • Aug 2014
                  • 475

                  Presumably Mr Putin knows that he has already lost this war. He may be able to install a puppet government at some stage, but having failed in his hopes for a swift victory and having murdered or displaced so many Ukrainians he will face an insurgency that will bog down his armies for decades - or until he is deposed. He is a spent force, Western liberal democracy has been strengthened. There will be weeks, or months, of horror yet, but we can now see that it is certain that the future for democracy is more secure than it has ever been.

                  Comment

                  • teamsaint
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 25210

                    Originally posted by Bella Kemp View Post
                    Presumably Mr Putin knows that he has already lost this war. He may be able to install a puppet government at some stage, but having failed in his hopes for a swift victory and having murdered or displaced so many Ukrainians he will face an insurgency that will bog down his armies for decades - or until he is deposed. He is a spent force, Western liberal democracy has been strengthened. There will be weeks, or months, of horror yet, but we can now see that it is certain that the future for democracy is more secure than it has ever been.
                    Democracy is facing a raft of far reaching , serious challenges, many hastened by the pandemic.

                    Many democratic governments are increasingly adopting authoritarian tactics, accentuated by the Covid-19 pandemic, while autocratic regimes are consolidating their power. Esta nota de prensa está disponible en español. STOCKHOLM—The world is becoming more authoritarian as autocratic regimes become even more brazen in their repression. Many democratic governments are


                    Whether or not Putin achieves any or all of his aims, there are big battles ahead inside democracies esp in area such as civil liberties, digital ID, digital currency, big tech censorship and so on.
                    And all the while China sits on the sidelines looking ever more powerful.
                    I fear that democracy has a hard time for some time ahead.

                    Back to Ukraine, and it is still hard to find any serious commentary on what his long term ambitions are. One might think that his recent offer on Crimea and the two republics would be a serious hint.
                    Last edited by teamsaint; 12-03-22, 10:31.
                    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                    I am not a number, I am a free man.

                    Comment

                    • french frank
                      Administrator/Moderator
                      • Feb 2007
                      • 30323

                      Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                      Back to Ukraine, and it is still hard to find any serious commentary on what his long term ambitions are. One might think that his recent offer on Crimea and the two republics would be a serious hint.
                      It's still difficult to interpret anything he says as reflecting 'his long-term ambitions'. He's telling his domestic audience that the special operation is designed to protect the Russian population of Donbas from persecution and to 'deNazify' the country.

                      In terms of dialogue with the Western powers, I was under the impression that Macron, Johnson and Biden (and Scholz?) had all had one-on-one talks with Putin and that NATO had not intervened, without there being any let-up in Russian attacks. If we see the EU talking (again) about joint defence, is that aggression on the part of the West when they should be … in dialogue?
                      It isn't given us to know those rare moments when people are wide open and the lightest touch can wither or heal. A moment too late and we can never reach them any more in this world.

                      Comment

                      • oddoneout
                        Full Member
                        • Nov 2015
                        • 9218

                        What increasingly worries me is that I'm not convinced that Putin has much in the way of strategy/plan/ambition now. I get the feeling his original idea hasn't worked out as he intended or expected and he is just lashing out in all directions - partly because he can and possibly also from some sort of dog in manger attitude - if Russia/Putin can't have Ukraine then he'll destroy it physically so that neither can anyone else. Is he even fully rational currently?

                        Comment

                        • Dave2002
                          Full Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 18023

                          Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                          Democracy is facing a raft of far reaching , serious challenges, many hastened by the pandemic.

                          Many democratic governments are increasingly adopting authoritarian tactics, accentuated by the Covid-19 pandemic, while autocratic regimes are consolidating their power. Esta nota de prensa está disponible en español. STOCKHOLM—The world is becoming more authoritarian as autocratic regimes become even more brazen in their repression. Many democratic governments are


                          Whether or not Putin achieves any or all of his aims, there are big battles ahead inside democracies esp in area such as civil liberties, digital ID, digital currency, big tech censorship and so on.
                          And all the while China sits on the sidelines looking ever more powerful.
                          I fear that democracy has a hard time for some time ahead.
                          I tend to think that "democracy" is the best of a rather bad choice of possibilities.

                          Comment

                          • Serial_Apologist
                            Full Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 37703

                            Originally posted by Dave2002 View Post
                            I tend to think that "democracy" is the best of a rather bad choice of possibilities.
                            Just been watching one of my old VHS tapes: "Five Steps to Tyranny" - a BBC documentary looking at how blind obedience can take root in individuals and whole communities, leading to dictatorships and ordinary people prepared to do terrible things to other ordinary people. Very instructive.

                            Comment

                            • Bryn
                              Banned
                              • Mar 2007
                              • 24688

                              Originally posted by Serial_Apologist View Post
                              Just been watching one of my old VHS tapes: "Five Steps to Tyranny" - a BBC documentary looking at how blind obedience can take root in individuals and whole communities, leading to dictatorships and ordinary people prepared to do terrible things to other ordinary people. Very instructive.

                              Comment

                              • muzzer
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2013
                                • 1193

                                Just in case nobody has already posted ‘the first casualty of war is the truth’, I do so now, and pray for all those caught up in this tragedy. And I’m agnostic by faith.

                                Comment

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