Ukraine

[eighthobstruction]

....<< cut and paste

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[Cockney Sparrow]

Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........

[eighthobstruction]

Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........

.....possibly a good idea for Ukrainians to lay on a endless supply of vodka for these Russian troops....

....colder it gets - makes it easier for tracked vehicles to move off road....

[Frances_iom]

.
....colder it gets - makes it easier for tracked vehicles to move off road....

I used to dread a warm winter (ie warmer than -10C or so) in Moscow as there was slush everywhere - colder kept the snow firm and easily shifted -colder than -20 generally means a blue sky rather than cloud.

The interview with a Russian historian (who sounded somewhat crazed to me) about mid way in todays R4 PM is extremely worrying if her views as a professor of history and at one time involved with the Russian delegation to UN are typical - it really came across that she believed the current Ukranian Govt were a continuation of some Fascist regime that was based in the all Austrian west of country.

[Dave2002]

I used to dread a warm winter (ie warmer than -10C or so) in Moscow as there was slush everywhere - colder kept the snow firm and easily shifted -colder than -20 generally means a blue sky rather than cloud.

I think it also depends on the humidity. I found -5 to -10C reasonably "comfortable" in Sweden as the snow/ice was hard enough to walk on. If the temperature rose a bit, then either a slushy mess formed - hard to walk and maybe drive on - and if it froze again then it could be treacherous. In the day walking in temperatures down to -20 C was OK - provided it was sunny, but below -10 C in dark and windy conditions was horrible.

I remember coming back to the UK and going out in rain and temperatures around 2 deg C, and finding those conditions really unpleasant. Somehow the cold really gets through to one's bones in wet weather.

[oddoneout]

As there is a wide range of knowledge in these parts could I ask - What and where is the evidence that Ukrainian refugees present a security risk large enough to block their entry into this country? I've been around long enough to know that race, colour and creed are not reliable indicators of terrorist tendencies but even so I find the current stance baffling, as well as abhorrent.

[Bryn]

As there is a wide range of knowledge in these parts could I ask - What and where is the evidence that Ukrainian refugees present a security risk large enough to block their entry into this country? I've been around long enough to know that race, colour and creed are not reliable indicators of terrorist tendencies but even so I find the current stance baffling, as well as abhorrent.

The fear is that Russian agents will try to enter, posing as Ukrainian refugees. That's the story, anyway.

[oddoneout]

The fear is that Russian agents will try to enter, posing as Ukrainian refugees. That's the story, anyway.

And they would be the wrong sort of Russian agents - lacking the multimillion£ dowries - presumably? Ah, I understand now.

[richardfinegold]

Conscripts may well return with frostbite - an article in the Times predicts temperatures down to -20 in the coming days - those vehicles stuck in that convoy won't have the fuel to run their engines - “Imagine being sat in a 40-tonne iron freezer all night,” - and the likelihood that the plan for a quick capture of the main cities didn't include arctic clothing for the 150,000 invaders...........

Hard to imagine Russia initiating an attack in February and not issuing warm clothing, particularly after the experiences of Napoleon and Hitler.

[Bryn]

I find this highly relevant and instructive: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...utin-oligarchs

[eighthobstruction]

I find this highly relevant and instructive: https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinio...utin-oligarchs

....strange that the final paragraph is so pointedly aimed at a 'new target' tagged on at the end....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)

[Frances_iom]

....strange that the final paragraph .....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)

Strange things happen at sea esp when the Prince of Darkness and the leading Tory kleptocrat meet up with a Russian professional kleptocrat.

[french frank]

....strange that the final paragraph is so pointedly aimed at a 'new target' tagged on at the end....obourne nuanced as usual....leaving one scratching ones head (and that is no bad thing)

Crosscurrents. I read the article and was disappointed that I couldn't access all the links I wanted to. So check on Oborne's recent history. Supporter/admirer of the aforementioned (on another thread perhaps?) Craig Murray who seems to be lining up to blame 'the West' for claiming that Putin was planning to invade ("I maintain the view that Putin is far too wily to be pushed into an invasion. If Putin really wished to escalate matters, he would be much more likely to cut gas supplies than to invade Ukraine." Feb 13) and therefore the West is forcing him to do so.

It's not that I'd accuse any of these people of being a 'fifth column'. But there seems to be a plethora of bloggers, influencers, commentators all only too ready to tell us what they reckon. Plenty of examples of why they reckon what they reckon, but the examples are handpicked to prove their point. Most issues are more complicated than the black-or-white arguments we're presented with.

[eighthobstruction]

....a new type of pogrom is going on in a area of the world that used to be rife with pogroms....

[Serial_Apologist]

Crosscurrents. I read the article and was disappointed that I couldn't access all the links I wanted to. So check on Oborne's recent history. Supporter/admirer of the aforementioned (on another thread perhaps?) Craig Murray who seems to be lining up to blame 'the West' for claiming that Putin was planning to invade ("I maintain the view that Putin is far too wily to be pushed into an invasion. If Putin really wished to escalate matters, he would be much more likely to cut gas supplies than to invade Ukraine." Feb 13) and therefore the West is forcing him to do so.

It's not that I'd accuse any of these people of being a 'fifth column'. But there seems to be a plethora of bloggers, influencers, commentators all only too ready to tell us what they reckon. Plenty of examples of why they reckon what they reckon, but the examples are handpicked to prove their point. Most issues are more complicated than the black-or-white arguments we're presented with.

Which of course implies Oborne has to be biassed on Corbyn, otherwise you wouldn't have seen fit to speak in such generalisations.