Ukraine

[oddoneout]

How much of a difference do they need to make for it to be worth taking part? If I were in Ukraine now, I think my will to continue resisting might well be strengthened by seeing that people all over the world are raising their voices in support. And especially people in Russia. As I've said here before, I remember Nelson Mandela thanking the British people (and pointedly not the British government) for making their voices heard against apartheid. We can all point at examples of protests that had no impact outside the solidarity and morale of participants (although those are important too), but we can equally point at examples where they did (for example in the ending of the Milošević regime). How much of a difference is there between staying at home and saying it makes no difference, and going out to demonstrate just in case it might?

Which I think is an important point about such demonstrations and protests - it is a way of the people of a country to make their views known, views which may be at odds with what the government is doing and saying. It's also a useful safety valve where people feel impotent through being unable to act directly but have strong feelings.
The extent to which this government has been(possibly still is) out of tune with the public's feelings about Ukrainians' need for support and safe havens is an example of where demonstrations have a purpose I would suggest, not least for the morale boost to the country in difficulty. A government talking of support may lead to action but will always come with a political agenda of some kind. The people of a country demonstrating their support arguably has more meaning to those seeing and hearing it.
My concern, seeing the extraordinary level of aid the people of this country are sending on their own initiative (ie not government action) is whether that enthusiasm will continue as and when the government finally pulls its digit out to bring refugees to this country.

[french frank]

How much of a difference do they need to make for it to be worth taking part? If I were in Ukraine now, I think my will to continue resisting might well be strengthened by seeing that people all over the world are raising their voices in support.

I quite agree. My own point wasn't that people shouldn't do it, but that they should. And even changing Chicken Kiev to Chicken Kyiv was "worth doing" if that was a way of publicly showing support.

[RichardB]

They particularly make a difference if news of them gets back to the Ukrainians and the Russians .

Which actually only takes a few people with mobile phones and connections in those places.

Apparently Russian news media are broadcasting a totally distorted account of events in Ukraine. But do they think Russian people are stupid enough to swallow this while at the same time ignoring the fact that Twitter, Facebook and Youtube have been taken offline? (though this restriction will be fairly easy to circumvent, especially given that Russians are world leaders in such things)

[Ein Heldenleben]

Which actually only takes a few people with mobile phones and connections in those places.

Apparently Russian news media are broadcasting a totally distorted account of events in Ukraine. But do they think Russian people are stupid enough to swallow this while at the same time ignoring the fact that Twitter, Facebook and Youtube have been taken offline? (though this restriction will be fairly easy to circumvent, especially given that Russians are world leaders in such things)

I don’t have the latest information about mobile connectivity in the Ukraine but bit by bit it will be degraded as masts are destroyed. On the internet front once the relevant servers and cables have been captured it will be relatively simple to cut off this supply of information. Then they will be relying on steam radio esp short wave.
What the Russians think is one of the great unknowns both for us and more crucially for Putin . If he imposes martial law to me that’s a tacit admission that he’s losing hearts and minds. The problem we have is that we cannot be sure that the information we are getting about what’s happening in Russia is accurate as independent journalism there has been suspended. All the bits of social media and videos have to be taken with a huge pinch of salt. One of the many things that has surprised me is that the Russians appear to be massively losing the info war and if they are cyber attacking our authorities are doing a world class job in counter measures.

[oddoneout]

I quite agree. My own point wasn't that people shouldn't do it, but that they should. And even changing Chicken Kiev to Chicken Kyiv was "worth doing" if that was a way of publicly showing support.

Interesting byways to be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Kiev
Has Sainsbury's explained specifically why the spelling has been changed, ie using the Ukrainian spelling rather than Russian, or just left it as generic "support for Ukraine"?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Upcoming recordings/performances of Pictures at an Exhibition will now no doubt end with The Great Gate of Kyiv.

Well, at least that's one bit of Kiev/ Kyiv that the Russians won't be able to destroy!

[Ein Heldenleben]

Interesting byways to be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Kiev
Has Sainsbury's explained specifically why the spelling has been changed, ie using the Ukrainian spelling rather than Russian, or just left it as generic "support for Ukraine"?

With apologies for the light hearted digression does any one really like Chicken Kiev? - doesn’t it have tendency to spurt garlic butter on the shirt?
Are there any other Ukrainian meals or classic dishes we could turn to ? I am in complete ignorance about this as indeed I am about Ukrainian culture in general .
The only novel I’ve read that set there is Bulgakov’s White Guard . A magnificent work….

[Petrushka]

With apologies for the light hearted digression does any one really like Chicken Kiev?.

Yes indeed, I do. I get mine from Waitrose and there's no problem with the spurting garlic butter if you cut with care.

[RichardB]

ways must be found so that the extra tax and price increases do not fall heaviest on those who can least afford them. Unfortunately, for the last 12 years we're been saddled with governments which have ensured that the reverse is true.

Indeed. Nor is anyone in the Tory gang prepared to give back one penny of the money they've received from dodgy Russian-linked sources.

[Bryn]

Indeed. Nor is anyone in the Tory gang prepared to give back one penny of the money they've received from dodgy Russian-linked sources.

I do not think they should give it back. They should openly use it, and more, to purchase aid, military or otherwise, for Ukraine.

[eighthobstruction]

....watching news casts....fantastic cohesion and spirit of the war-torn refugees....just getting on with it [very often with smile on faces].....children pleased with endless supplies of sugary sweets....

[Joseph K]

I am very much a NATO supporter but I thought Afghanistan was a waste of time and very unlikely to reduce terrorist activity. .

What do you support about NATO? Its illegal invasions, or its warmongering? Interesting that you mention Afghanistan but not Iraq. Invading and occupying these countries has directly contributed to terrorism - Islamic State was invented in the pandaemonium Iraq was reduced to.

Contrast the matter-of-fact tone of speaking of waging war against Afghanistan with the rather more hysterical one of Russia waging war against Ukraine.

[french frank]

What do you support about NATO? Its illegal invasions, or its warmongering?

Point of information: does NATO ever act without the mandate of a UN Security Council Resolution?

[Joseph K]

Point of information: does NATO ever act without the mandate of a UN Security Council Resolution?

Those can be vetoed by members, can they not?

[RichardB]

Point of information: does NATO ever act without the mandate of a UN Security Council Resolution?

The bombing of Yugoslavia is one example.